Logic and Carseat Myths

Wiggles

New member
It just occurred to me.

Logic dictates that the carseat myths of 'baby should turn at 1 year and 20 lbs' and 'baby's feet shouldn't touch the seat back' are untrue.

Why? Well, according to the boys' growth chart I usually look at when considering the size of a child at a certain age (I'm a writer), a 95th percentile child won't hit 35 lbs until about 27 months. This is WELL after two years. And rear-and-forward facing seats (I always get convertible and combination mixed up, sorry) quite often rear face to 33 or 35 lbs.

Should it not be simple logic for most parents to realize that (almost) NO child is 33 lbs at 1 year of age and therefore they should be asking questions about the 1 and 20 rule? Should it not also be simple logic for them to realize that a 33 lb child is going to have feet hitting the seat back and that they should do more research about feet hitting the seat back? With new 40 lb rf limit seats, shouldn't the fact that these are myths be even CLEARER?

Are the majority of parents incapable of logic or is there something I'm missing here? Are they just so willing to listen to what someone else says that they can't think for themselves?
 
ADS

all together ooky

New member
I think most people are looking forward to "milestones" and being able to turn their child forward-facing means their child is "growing up". Just like moving 3-year-olds into boosters-they think they're child is a "big kid". Most people find carseats an inconvenience and can't wait until their child doesn't need one. Sad, I know.
I also believe many just don't understand what a carseat is for (it's just a place to put your child in the car, right???). I wish they were called something like "child crash restraint" or "car safety seat".

*steps off my soapbox*
 

BookMama

Senior Community Member
Gosh, there are so many things keeping parents from knowing about RF past 1yr/20lbs. The car seats themselves say you can turn a child FF at 1/20. Many pediatricians are not up to date, and tell parents at one-year well visits that they can turn baby FF. Everyone else they know turns their kids FF at 1/20, so why would it occur to a parent not to do that? Parents who have older children remember that 1/20 is a great goal - my DS is only 8, but his convertible seat had a RF limit of 22 lbs., for instance.

Etc.

Etc.

Parents just don't know about RF past 1/20, and I never, ever fault someone for turning their child at 1/20, unless I know that they have info about ERF. :twocents:
 

Adventuredad

New member
Car seat safety is a low priority thing is most countries. The information about erf needs to be there at a very basic level so that it becomes default thinking. I think organizations, government, and manufacturers are doing a horrible job with information. Parents also needs to sharpen up, it seems like most focus 50* more in what xbox to get than using a child seat.

The latest "new" advice, based on facts which was available ages ago, of rear facing until age 2 is a joke IMHO. I can understand that few parents reading it really care about it. It's communicated in such a way it sounds like erf is just barely safer when reality is far different.

Most parents actually believe it's a great idea to turn at 12/20, many also believe it's a law. That should say something about how effective current information is.:whistle:
 

southpawboston

New member
Are they just so willing to listen to what someone else says that they can't think for themselves?

this is the impression i get of many here ;) :duck: :whistle:

many people here are hesitant to allow newcomers with questions to actually think for themselves, and give oversimplified answers to avoid having to think. this is EXACTLY what the carseat manufacturers do by not going into extensive details about rules and logic and reasoning.

rather than faulting people's ability to think, we should be faulting the carseat mfrs and other powers that be for not making information and latest recommendations more widespread.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Are the majority of parents incapable of logic or is there something I'm missing here? Are they just so willing to listen to what someone else says that they can't think for themselves?

Most people find carseats an inconvenience and can't wait until their child doesn't need one.

I think both of these statements are completely missing the point. Why should parents, any parents, have to put the amount of time and effort into learning about carseats that is currently necessary? I know we're all obsessed with it here, but I think we lose perspective because it's our specific interest. Most parents aren't that interested, and why should they have to be?

For example, I can protect myself in a vehicle with extremely little effort and very little information. Buckling my seat belt takes seconds, and they're all similar enough that regardless of whether I've ridden in that type of vehicle before, I can easily figure out how to use the seat belt.

How many of us would honestly use our seat belts correctly every time if it were as difficult as installing a carseat currently is? Be honest - I don't know about you, but I certainly have better things to do with my time than to invest hours and hours on researching how to wear a seat belt correctly, on the remote chance that I'm going to get in a crash today. Maybe I'll look into it tomorrow, yk?

The fact of the matter is, carseats are inconvenient, and they require a lot of education and energy to use correctly. It's ridiculous, and I don't think it's fair to blame parents for not investing that amount of time and energy, and more accurately, for not believing that that level of time and energy is even required, when it makes absolutely no sense on any level that it should require such an effort.

Everyone loves their kids, right? We all value our children more than anything else, right? We, as a society, claim to value children over anything else - you can't even buy a toy without it coming with a warning label about choking hazards, right? So keeping them safe in the car should be easy, right?

The problem isn't the parents. It's the products.
 

southpawboston

New member
I think both of these statements are completely missing the point. Why should parents, any parents, have to put the amount of time and effort into learning about carseats that is currently necessary? I know we're all obsessed with it here, but I think we lose perspective because it's our specific interest. Most parents aren't that interested, and why should they have to be?

For example, I can protect myself in a vehicle with extremely little effort and very little information. Buckling my seat belt takes seconds, and they're all similar enough that regardless of whether I've ridden in that type of vehicle before, I can easily figure out how to use the seat belt.

How many of us would honestly use our seat belts correctly every time if it were as difficult as installing a carseat currently is? Be honest - I don't know about you, but I certainly have better things to do with my time than to invest hours and hours on researching how to wear a seat belt correctly, on the remote chance that I'm going to get in a crash today. Maybe I'll look into it tomorrow, yk?

The fact of the matter is, carseats are inconvenient, and they require a lot of education and energy to use correctly. It's ridiculous, and I don't think it's fair to blame parents for not investing that amount of time and energy, and more accurately, for not believing that that level of time and energy is even required, when it makes absolutely no sense on any level that it should require such an effort.

Everyone loves their kids, right? We all value our children more than anything else, right? We, as a society, claim to value children over anything else - you can't even buy a toy without it coming with a warning label about choking hazards, right? So keeping them safe in the car should be easy, right?

The problem isn't the parents. It's the products.

totally agreed, defrost. worth a little rep :).

and i can give you another example of an important safety practice that i'm willing to bet many regulars here ignore because it's an inconvenience: how many of you here check your tire pressures regularly? do you walk around your car every day to make sure a tire is not visibly low before driving off? because if you don't, you're really not doing best safety practice and you are increasing the risk of being in an accident. underinflated tires are responsible for many deaths (just remember back to the ford/firestone fiasco). that's why TPMS is required on all new cars sold in the US. honestly, should i start getting all indignant and disdainful of you all for not checking your tires before each and every ride in the car? should i call you uncaring? lol... that is sort of like how people who turn their kids at 12/20 are seen by some of the regulars here who are 100% carseat aware. how's that for the pot calling the kettle black? ;)

so in the end, i think this is a great analogy-- i'm sure many people here don't have a clue what their tire pressure is on a given day, yet it's something that is easy to do and is the same for all cars (just like using seatbelts), and it is important from a safety perspective (just like seatbelts).

is it an inconvenience to check your tires every day? you betcha. and that's exactly how most people see carseat usage. :twocents:
 
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bree

Car-Seat.Org Ambassador
I used to be really uneducated about car seats, so I can easily think back to what was going through my mind with car seats.

I knew kids had to be 1 year and 20 pounds to be forward facing. It sounds really so stupid to think about it now, but I was under the impression that 1 and 20 would be when their neck muscles were developed enough to handle riding forward-facing in the car. The only thing I ever read about why included information about neck muscles. I did not think that being rear-facing provided crash protection in an accident. I didn't consider the car seat to be a protective device in a crash, but as a way to transport a kid in the car. I thought the way they had to face was based on their neck being able to handle the ride in the car, like being big enough to ride on amusement park ride. I know, very stupid, but I really didn't give the issue much thought. :eek:

Fortunately, I understood that it was 1 and 20, not 1 or 20, so my daughter was still rear-facing at 15 months because she was less than 20 pounds. That's when she outgrew her Evenflo Triumph rear-facing due to torso height. (I bought the Evenflo Triumph based on Consumer Reports recommendation; I didn't know what the rear-facing weight limit was on the seat. Even if I knew it was 30 pounds, I seriously would have thought it was to account for heavy kids under 1.) When I went online to see what I should do since she still wasn't 20 pounds, I found out my seat was installed wrong (using LATCH in the center of car that doesn't allow it) and that she should stay rear-facing. Even at the time, I didn't understand the "whys" behind was I was learning. It's hard to handle all that info at once, and really at 3+ years later, I'm still learning stuff every day.

So I get that parents don't understand why the kid needs to be rear-facing and why the weight limits are higher than 20 pounds. On the other hand, I hate when people do have the information and ignore it. Even then, I do have some sympathy, because as I mentioned, I didn't really understand the information when I first heard it.
 

all together ooky

New member
I used to be really uneducated about car seats, so I can easily think back to what was going through my mind with car seats.

I knew kids had to be 1 year and 20 pounds to be forward facing. It sounds really so stupid to think about it now, but I was under the impression that 1 and 20 would be when their neck muscles were developed enough to handle riding forward-facing in the car. The only thing I ever read about why included information about neck muscles. I did not think that being rear-facing provided crash protection in an accident. I didn't consider the car seat to be a protective device in a crash, but as a way to transport a kid in the car. I thought the way they had to face was based on their neck being able to handle the ride in the car, like being big enough to ride on amusement park ride. I know, very stupid, but I really didn't give the issue much thought. :eek:
Fortunately, I understood that it was 1 and 20, not 1 or 20, so my daughter was still rear-facing at 15 months because she was less than 20 pounds. That's when she outgrew her Evenflo Triumph rear-facing due to torso height. (I bought the Evenflo Triumph based on Consumer Reports recommendation; I didn't know what the rear-facing weight limit was on the seat. Even if I knew it was 30 pounds, I seriously would have thought it was to account for heavy kids under 1.) When I went online to see what I should do since she still wasn't 20 pounds, I found out my seat was installed wrong (using LATCH in the center of car that doesn't allow it) and that she should stay rear-facing. Even at the time, I didn't understand the "whys" behind was I was learning. It's hard to handle all that info at once, and really at 3+ years later, I'm still learning stuff every day.

So I get that parents don't understand why the kid needs to be rear-facing and why the weight limits are higher than 20 pounds. On the other hand, I hate when people do have the information and ignore it. Even then, I do have some sympathy, because as I mentioned, I didn't really understand the information when I first heard it.

Thank you, Bree. That's exactly what I meant. I totally have sympathy for parents and how difficult it can be to keep their children safe. Heck, that's why this site is here. :thumbsup:
 

a_js

New member
What I find (and what Parenting Magazine even said recently!) is that people think a kid being in a carseat is good enough. As in "the fact that you're using one is good." Well, sure it is, but they're not magical. They don't protect kids well unless they're used properly.

I think most people don't devote the time or energy to vehicle safety that it deserves, which is baffling to me since riding in a car is inherently dangerous.
 

Wiggles

New member
I'd like to thank everyone for your answers. I really hope I didn't come off as too obnoxious in my OP. I'm really trying to understand why people don't look into this stuff. I'm beginning to realize that I'm weird. :p I think part of that comes from the fact that I used to work with disabled kids, so EVERYTHING had to be researched and examined and it became habit. You didn't buy the little guy I was with the longest ANYTHING without considering every possible way he could be hurt or harmed by it. I think that changes your perspective on stuff. Thank you for helping me to see the other side.
 

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