It's official-- I've been assimilated...

I am now one of the carseat safety Borg...

While in BRU today buying my 7y/o son's Parkway, the lady behind me in line commented on what a nice seat it looked like (or rather sounded like) from the description on the box of its safety features. So I told her a little about it; that I already have one for my 9y/o dd who adores it, about the TSIP and how that's so much safer than a backless booster. She seemed surprised that a 9y/o would even need a booster, so I gave her a little info on when kiddos are ready for boosters and when they're ready for adult seatbelts. I asked her how old her child is, and it turns out she has a young infant, with plenty of time left RFing. I told her the whole Britax line is just about the safest out there, to keep in mind when she is shopping for a convertible in a few months time.

The line was outrageous, you can imagine, so close to Christmas, so we had 10-15 min. to talk about the subject and she seemed quite interested. I encouraged her to search online for info on why rear-facing is safest, to look up some crash test footage and see for herself why her baby does NOT "need" to be turned FF when the 20 lb./12 month "milestone" is reached. She seemed very receptive to all of the information, so hopefully she will be interested enough to go find the info herself. I tried really hard not to come off with a "you should..." or "you need to..." attitude. I said a couple of times, don't take my word for it, do some research online, check out car-seat.org, et al. I wish I'd written it down on a piece of paper for her. I know *I* would probably forget even such a simple web address between store & home...

Anyways, I felt really good about the conversation when it was done, like there's a chance I could have made a difference in how she looks at carseat safety, and maybe that will affect the decisions she makes with her child in the future.

Congrats on a good experience! It can really make your day, huh?!

Sure can! I also meant to post that I got the Parkway for a little over $80-- BRU had a promotion going on for 20% your entire purchase if you applied for their credit card at the time of purchase. Only problem with that was, the purchase had to be put on the card as well. But I was pleased to get the 20% off either way. I checked the DOM, too, and it was 11/06 so I think I did pretty well! A good experience all around at BRU today!

Sounds like a great day!

And I'm laughing out loud at "carseat safety borg".

LOL. "We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated." <insert multiple synchronized echoing voiceovers here> I watched way too many episodes of the various Star Trek series with DH and I can't help myself, sorry. Can you believe we once took a road trip to the Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. primarily to see a special Star Trek exhibit?

Welcome to the official car safety collective, and good for you for gently informing the other mom while waiting in line.

I want to be a borg too! lol That's great you got to help, I'm not much help w/ boosters. I got to help a couple who had 11mos old twins the other night though at Target. They were looking for convertible seats. I don't normally do that, but I had Ilana in her sling so we talked and it kind of opened the door to it so I took it and ran. I hopefully saved them from a terrible AO purchase. I need to have little cards printed out w/ this site on it, that would help a lot. I also mentioned our next check in Jan and I'd love to see them there.

This is funny I got a lady at Bru lastnight to get the Evenflo Generations over the Cosco Eddie Bauer booster harness combo seat.

Ahahaha -- Leila discovered Star Trek thanks to my dad & is a total fan

Haha! I can't help myself in stores sometimes. One couple was so excited to have their dd FF, but once I explained it all to them (complete with a demo of the seat on the bench seat at BRU, lol!) they were so excited to keep her RF! That made my day. Of course, My dh wondered why it took me so long at BRU to return one item. What, did he really think I could go into BRU and NOT browse all the carseats!?

Alicia-N-2SafeBugs said:

What, did he really think I could go into BRU and NOT browse all the carseats!?

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My SO has caught on -- he usually has a silly sarcastic (yet supportive) remark about how he might as well plan on making dinner & puting Leila to bed....

In a somewhat-related sidenote to this Parkway puchase...

Dh just realized this morning that I'd bought it, and all I got was a & comment. He was against buying another one (our 9y/o dd just got one about a month ago), based solely on the fact that our 7y/o ds already had a booster-- a Graco backless. He even told me last month NOT to buy ds a new seat, or he'd just go and take it back for a refund. Well, I told him basically that my opinion was the only one that counted in this decision, because *I* was the only one researching, learning, PRACTICING vehicle safety, and when he decided he wanted to listen to me, look at the links I've emailed him, INFORM himself, etc., THEN and only then would I take his *informed* opinion into account.

I'd like to add that Ds himself WANTS a full booster and hates the backless one. He's been asking me since we had to destroy the Graco TB (from our accident last summer) when I was going to get him his new seat. And why does his sister get to be safer than him, stuff like that. Breaks my heart!

Well, I've been trying to order one from babyuniverse since, well, right after Dd's came in the mail last month and Dh and I had the above dead-end discussion. Babyuniverse sucks, BTW. I finally got fed up, knowing that we are about to drive two days straight from VA to TX over the holidays, and of course 2 days back, and went to get the seat from BRU. Ds wanted the Speedway pattern (perfect, considering that it's on sale all over the place online), but I had to settle for buying the "Express", which is made only for TRU/BRU if I'm not mistaken, but is quite similar to the Speedway.

Anyway, I got it for the same price I was going to pay for the on-sale Speedway pattern, and Ds loves it *almost* as much. But now, finally a month later, I was faced with the knowledge that the purchase was made, for better or for worse, and Dh was probably not going to be pleased. I hate confrontation, but I refuse to budge on this, so i was ready for a head-to-head battle! I'm feeling a little deflated, but not at ALL disappointed, by his reaction. All he said was, "I remember telling you I didn't want to buy any more seats." And all I replied with was, "And I remember telling you I would be buying it anyway." Then Ds started talking about how cool it was, how much he likes it, and all Dh could do was smile and shrug.

That's it, for now, though. We have good, safe seats for all of the children who need them now, and won't need to buy another for a while, if ever. With my 2.5y/o dd in an AOE (RFing), almost-5y/o dd in her Radian, then the 7 & 9y/o's in their PWs, it should just be a matter of moving them all up a seat (except the 7y/o) in a couple of years. 9y/o can use her PW for a year or two, until she's tall enough to sit without it, or until my preschooler outgrows the Radian (by height, for sure, not weight) and needs move into her PW. Then, the 2y/o (should be 4.5-5 by then) can move into the Radian and we won't need the AOE any more.

If $$ weren't a question, I'd actually get rid of the AOE and get another Radian, but the seat is only a few months old and perfectly adequate, and I can't justify that. As it is, we now have almost $600 worth of carseats sitting in our vehicle. That seems rather excessive, considering our income, but I KNOW it's worth it for my childrens' safety. I just wish I'd been this aware and conscientious about carseats from the start. I'm baffled as to how I can be so careful and studious about so many health-related issues when it comes to my kids, but to have been such a carseat MORON for all of these years... It's sickening to think how much we've relied on sheer luck (unbeknownst to us) over the years to keep our children safe.

My next task WRT vehicle safety is to look into whether we can somehow get our bench-seat middle lap belts replaced with lap/shoulder belts. We have no choice right now but to have the oldest children (11.5y/o and 13.5y/o) sitting there when we travel together with all 8 of us in the car. But at least they know to sit correctly with the belt across their hips and not their tummies. If the belts can't be replaced/retrofitted or whatever, most likely we'll have to live with it until we pay this vehicle off and can look into buying another.

Thanks for letting me ramble! I think I'm done now!

OKay, I want a carseat borg tee shirt.

Edit: Are you another one in VA?

PS, the bit about the sister being safer would break my heart too!

Hopefully the more knowledgeable on the forums will be able to offer realistic suggestions for your older children. It sucks that there are so many vehicles that don't have appropriate restraints in them. Most of them...doesn't it seem like it? Ugh.

K.

chaoticoctopus said:

I told him basically that my opinion was the only one that counted in this decision, because *I* was the only one researching, learning, PRACTICING vehicle safety, and when he decided he wanted to listen to me, look at the links I've emailed him, INFORM himself, etc., THEN and only then would I take his *informed* opinion into account.

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Good for you!

chaoticoctopus said:

I'd like to add that Ds himself WANTS a full booster and hates the backless one. He's been asking me since we had to destroy the Graco TB (from our accident last summer) when I was going to get him his new seat. And why does his sister get to be safer than him, stuff like that. Breaks my heart!

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That alone should be enough to "prove" to your dh that the seat was a necessary purchase. I'm so happy that you were strong enough to stand up to your dh. So many don't over carseat issues.

chaoticoctopus said:

My next task WRT vehicle safety is to look into whether we can somehow get our bench-seat middle lap belts replaced with lap/shoulder belts. We have no choice right now but to have the oldest children (11.5y/o and 13.5y/o) sitting there when we travel together with all 8 of us in the car. But at least they know to sit correctly with the belt across their hips and not their tummies. If the belts can't be replaced/retrofitted or whatever, most likely we'll have to live with it until we pay this vehicle off and can look into buying another.

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What vehicle do you drive, again? I'm just trying to picture the set-up. It sounds like you have two three-seater benches with lap/shoulderbelts outboard and lapbelts in the middle, correct?

Can't you install the RF AOE and the FF Radian in the center lapbelts and put the two kids in Parkways and the two oldest in the lap/shoulderbelts?

Thanks for the suggestions! The van is a Chevy Astro ('03), and you are correct about the seating. As for putting the two convertibles in the center/lap belt positions, the main problems with that are 1) either one in RFing config will totally block the way for the child who has to get to the driver's side outboard seat, and 2) no tether anchor for the middle positions, mostly a problem for the Radian.

Can you tether to an anchor for the seat to the left or right? This would make putting the FF Radian in the 3rd row center an option. In the 3rd row, there are no LATCH anchors, but the passenger side outboard seat at least has a tether anchor.

I could turn the AOE FF again, put it in the 2nd row center seat; basically downgrading my 2.5y/o's safety in order to upgrade the older two childrens'. What would y'all do? FTR, she only weighs about 26# and is about 34-35" tall, a petite lil' thing.

Something I need to check into-- what kind of latchplates (if any) those lap belts have. I'm not well-versed in the different types of belts, and how they work best WRT carseat installation.

I'm not trying to shoot holes in all of the suggestions. I'd really like to figure out something a little more ideal than what we've got now. Actually, what I've got now is a 200% improvement over what it was at the time of our accident in July! But it's still not ideal. As things are, though, we have the four safety seats installed and being used correctly in positions that are (I think) ideal for each seat-type, and the two middle seats with lap belts that are not nearly as safe as they could be, but at least being used correctly. Mightn't it just be best to have the four youngest, most vulnerable children in the seats and positions that can keep them the safest, since we know that the oldest two can and do sit correctly in their lap-only belts, 100% of the time? I'm really asking here; I'm not a CPST, and I'm not sure what's good/better/best here.

Keep the ideas comin'!

Simply, yes we are in VA!

I forget the angle allowed for tethering, but it's safe for me to use the anchor next to where the seat is installed for my Britax (check with customer service!)....

I'd rather do that than turn your 2 year old FF, but under 24 months is the riskier age, so since she's over that then if you cannot tether to the Radian to an adject anchor then I would turn RF kiddo FF to more equally distribute safety among all kids (so bigger kids don't have to use lap only belt)

I don't think you're trying to shoot holes in all our theories, don't worry!

Honestly, if it were me and my family, I WOULD turn the 2.5yo forward at this point, even though she's just 26 pounds. I believe the older kids NEED the shoulderbelts. Yes, they're using the lapbelts correctly, but all the lapbelts will do is keep them in their seats so they don't become projectiles in the car. They won't protect them, per se.

I would also tether to the anchor next to it, if need be. It's better than not tethering, KWIM?

I appreciate all of the ideas. I went out to switch seats around this afternoon, and discovered that the AOE installs wonderfully FF in the center seat. No problems with that one. The Radian, however, I'm having more trouble with. The seat belt latchplate goes up too high into the beltpath area, and won't tighten enough OR stay at the right angle to "lock" in that position. (Hope that makes enough sense.) I ran out of time to fiddle with it when Dh had to go into work, though, so I'll have to figure something out tomorrow before we head out of town (obviously).

Another question-- if the middle row's bench has LATCH in both outboard seats, can I use the center-most LATCH anchors from each outboard seat to install a seat in the middle? I know I've read about this before, but can't remember the answer. If that's acceptable, I could put the Radian up in the middle row and the AOE using the lapbelt in the back row, since it has no issues with the lapbelt install. I think I'd actually feel better about my 2.5y/o FFing back in the way back row than in that middle row, anyway, KWIM? No factual basis that she'd be any safer, just a "feeling".

I may just have to settle for only being able to switch one around.

I do not believe Chevy allows the use of the innermost anchors for a center LATCH install. If it does not expressly allow this in the manual then it isn't okay.

With the Radian and the latchplate in the beltpath: you can twist the buckle stalk up to three full twists to bring everything lower and hopefully out of the beltpath.

I'll have to check the manual re: LATCH in the middle seat tomorrow.

The stalk is hard to twist! I tried earlier, but couldn't hold it all together myself while trying to get the tongue buckled in. I think I'll need Dh's help to manage it all; twisting the stalk, body weight against the seat, buckling tightly enough. All in the confines of the back seat... It *would* have to be this difficult, wouldn't it?

LOL! I feel your frustration. Is the buckle stalk covered in plastic, or is it just very thick webbing?