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  1. #1
    Carseat Crazy Chex's Avatar
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    Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    We've looked at them online, we saw a Ford E350 in person, but haven't test-driven any yet.

    Wondering what the opinions are on these big vans (Ford E350 and Chevy Express). Sprinter is out of our price-range, so that's not really an option. And whichever van we get, we're going to have headrests installed in all the bench seats, so keep that in mind.

    DD1 13y 5-stepsDS1 12y 5-steps
    DD2 9y IncognitoDD3 7y Pink Monterey
    DD4 5y FF Flora RN XTSLDS2 3y RF Red RN XTSLDS3 Cowmoo Britax Chaperone

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  3. #2
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I don't know that it matters between them, personally.

    I'd prefer to buy Ford over Chevy (Ford survived without bailout money, without bankruptcy, posting a profit, and they have the #1 selling vehicle in the cash-for-clunkers program...)

    Get in them, sit in them.

    Also, Ford is intro'ing the E350 at some point in the not-too-distant future a Diesel option...I suppose in response to the Sprinter's success. That said, I don't know if they will have L/S belts in all positions. The newest one I rode in still had lap-only belts in the middle.
    Raechel, mom of my crew of now 5!

  4. #3
    CPS Technician christineka's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Are you getting tired of the sienna already?

    I've entertained the idea of the big van lately as well. It is certainly a pain to get everyone in the van.
    Christine *mom* to

    Dd1 age 17 (seatbelt), Dd2 age 15 (seatbelt), Ds1 age 14 (seatbelt), Dd4 age 12 (Seatbelt), Ds2 age 10 (Probooster), Dd4 age 7 (rstv), and dd5 age 1 (rfing Pria)

  5. #4
    Carseat Crazy Chex's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Actually it's DH that's contemplating a new van. I'm actually just fine w/the Sienna. The problem is that we got a hitch put on so that we could tow a small trailer. (DH does lots of home improvement projects and the trailer comes in extremely handy. It also came in handy 2 weeks ago when we went camping.) With the hitch on it, and 3 big kids in the back, it scrapes the pavement quite often. If we're not super careful, it scrapes our super-steep driveway and we scrape going over ditches sometimes, or just up into any driveway that's at a sharper incline. DH is worried that this problem will only get worse as the kids get bigger. And honestly, although I know they're fine, they do look quite squished back there in the 3rd row.

    So yes, we're entertaining the idea of getting a new van. But we're having difficulties figuring out the right one for us. One of the issues is that our driveway is so steep, DH doesn't think I'd be able to make it up the driveway in the winter if there's any snow on it. All the big vans are rear-wheel drive (including the Sprinter), which makes it almost impossible to get up a steep, snowy hill.

    There's one version of the Chevy Express that's AWD, but it only comes with 2 benches of 3 seats each, so that's no better than what we've got. There's a chance that you may be able to add a 3rd bench after-market, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

    All of the 2008 or newer Fords come w/lap and shoulder belts in all seating positions. Not sure yet on the Chevys.

    Anyway, enough of my rambling.....these are just the thoughts we've been trying to sort out and I thought I'd post and see if anyone w/experience with either van has an opinion.

    (Christine, I'll let you know what we figure out, just in case you're really starting to think about it. I seriously don't know how you handle doing 6 kids in there....we have the 6th seat taken out and it makes it so much easier....and it's STILL such a process each time! Have you posted pics yet with all 6 kids in there?)

    DD1 13y 5-stepsDS1 12y 5-steps
    DD2 9y IncognitoDD3 7y Pink Monterey
    DD4 5y FF Flora RN XTSLDS2 3y RF Red RN XTSLDS3 Cowmoo Britax Chaperone

  6. #5
    Senior Community Member Jennifer mom to my 7's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I had 6 kids in my sienna! Not as many seats as Christine, though Regent, decathlon, boulevard, parkway....than backless turbo. Plus an 11 year old and 17 year old.





    Alas, we had another baby, so had to upgrade We (I) decided on a 9 passenger conversion (more kids might give us a problem) because I wanted lap/shoulder belts and headrests. Only head rest missing is the rear bench center. 4 full sets of latch in the captains seats, plus a tether for that center bench. Plus the tow hitch. It is basically the gmc savanna 3500 chassis I think. Gmc has a link on the site to check into the conversions. I have wondered if you could customized everything, since I would have preferred at least 1 more seat. Of course, if you read some threads here, you will see people call any of these vans death traps and people state they would never allow their children to ride in them. Ours has stabilitrac.
    Whatever Wendy said

    "No one else will ever know the strength of my love for you, after all, you're the only one who knows what my heart sounds like from the inside." -Unknown

  7. #6
    Carseat Crazy Chex's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Wow! Awesome picture!

    We would get stabilitrac too. I think all the newer years come with it standard.

    DD1 13y 5-stepsDS1 12y 5-steps
    DD2 9y IncognitoDD3 7y Pink Monterey
    DD4 5y FF Flora RN XTSLDS2 3y RF Red RN XTSLDS3 Cowmoo Britax Chaperone

  8. #7
    CPS Technician christineka's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I think it is quite possible that we may upgrade to a larger vehicle in the future. I'm going to have 4 teens all at once.

    Chex- I've been wondering how the buckling of boosters in the back is going. I am not too fond of having rfing seats in the back. It is a pain, though I bet any 6 car seat configuration would be a pain. I don't know that there is any booster that would fit with my seats in the back anyway. I played with the seats a couple weeks ago and it didn't work easily to put a booster in the middle. I didn't try on the driver's side though.
    Christine *mom* to

    Dd1 age 17 (seatbelt), Dd2 age 15 (seatbelt), Ds1 age 14 (seatbelt), Dd4 age 12 (Seatbelt), Ds2 age 10 (Probooster), Dd4 age 7 (rstv), and dd5 age 1 (rfing Pria)

  9. #8
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    The E350 DLX we rented was the easiest install of forward-facing seats I've ever done. Seriously. The RADIANS took 5 seconds to put in that van. My only beefs with it were the lack of headrests (which you will remedy), seatbelt geometry for second and third row seats meant people climbed through seatbelts when seats were installed outboard there (but that's probably the same in most vans), and that the only spot to fit a RF Radian was the center of the second row, which had no spot to tether it. But using smaller (front to back) convertibles would remedy that one.

    Be aware that the instruction manual says not to install car seats in the last row (only boosters are supposed to go there. Though the low seatbelts mean many boosters would have the belt coming from beneath the shoulders so that's not so good. ) But, I got a good install of my Radian there... I e-mailed and was told it was because it was too narrow. I told them the Radians fit fine between the anchors. They said they were looking into it but never got back to me. Since the seats needing to be between the anchors was the only reason, according to Ford, I would feel fine making a parental decision to put a narrow (or narrow based) seat back there (although come to think of it I had trouble with the locking-- I think I'd use a locking clip for peace of mind or a seat with lockoffs.) Also, LATCH is only in the center seats of the second and third rows, but there are supposed to be tether anchors on every seat in the rear (I verified 6 in the second and third rows-- 2 add-on type anchors for the middle seats, and 4 that were holes located in the legs of the seats for outboard seats.) The manual seemed to indicate tether anchors also available in the back row but I just glanced over it and also I didn't check.

    Where/how are you going to get headrests put in? I would love a Sprinter when we outgrow the Sienna we're buying next (we cram 'em full but do plan on more than 6 kids), but if I could get headrests in every position in a different van I'd most definitely consider it.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  10. #9
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chex View Post
    So yes, we're entertaining the idea of getting a new van. But we're having difficulties figuring out the right one for us. One of the issues is that our driveway is so steep, DH doesn't think I'd be able to make it up the driveway in the winter if there's any snow on it. All the big vans are rear-wheel drive (including the Sprinter), which makes it almost impossible to get up a steep, snowy hill.
    Here in SC, we don't have much in the way of snow/ice, but when we do, we have to leave the Sprinter at the bottom of the driveway and walk through the snow on the side of the driveway to avoid the ice on the driveway.

    If it's just a half inch or so of snow, not a big deal for the Sprinter...but if it's ANY ice, or more than that of snow, we need the van at the bottom of the driveway.
    Raechel, mom of my crew of now 5!

  11. #10
    CPS Fanatic zeo2ski's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Aside from the headrests and l/s belts, are there any other safety advantages of the sprinter? I'm pretty scared of vans for the rollover factor.

    So I have a rear wheel drive suburban and a lip up going out of our driveway onto the road; is a rear wheel van much different from the sub? We have good winters here...and since we ski, when it snows, we go. Is a big van just asking for trouble? We're not opposed to getting a used short bus instead, but if the newer vans are reasonably safe they're probably more practical.
    Cathy
    B-- 6.5y harnessed cowmoo FR85;
    Sl--5y RF RXT;
    H-- 2.5 RF RNXT;M--7mos CCOA--1 mos KF30 and R 1.5 RXT

  12. #11
    Senior Community Member Jennifer mom to my 7's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    In my opinion, and of course this is just my opinion, I think they are perfectly safe, as long as you know how to drive them. My dh does, and even has tought evoc. You can't excessively speed, or try to make sharp turns. You can't do that in certain suv's either. Would you all ride in an ambulance? A box type is much more prone to rollover than a van type. And a van type is just a conversion van. Complete with the fiberglass top. THey do not crush in when rolled over. And, like has been stated, all new larger passenger vans come standard with stabilitrac. It's a given.

    You can't hit turns at 40-50 when they call for 25...you don't really want to go over 70 mph on the highway. But, as long as they are treated with respect, as most other vehicles need to be treated with respect, they are fine. HTH
    Whatever Wendy said

    "No one else will ever know the strength of my love for you, after all, you're the only one who knows what my heart sounds like from the inside." -Unknown

  13. #12
    CPS Technician BW1426's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    So while I have never had that many kids crammed in a van on a daily basis, I have had a full van of carseats quite a few times.

    I'm totally nerdy about crash test ratings. So pull up the crash test ratings and decide how much safety you're willing to give up for more room and go from there. Would you consider a big SUV over a conversion van?
    DD1--4/6/2006--Britax Parkway SGL
    DD2--12/9/2012--Britax Advocate and Marathon

  14. #13
    Carseat Crazy Chex's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    You guys all make good points.

    We borrowed an E350 from a dealership tonight to see how we like it (we get to keep it until tomorrow ). I liked the way the Sprinter drove better than the E350, but other than that, they're both just big, huge vehicles. The carseats all installed ok. The BLVD was FF w/a seatbelt, and went in beautifully. And KQ, you were right, the only place to install the RN RF was center of 2nd row and it would only install w/LATCH. I put the baby in her Snugride behind the driver, but I wouldn't have it there normally because it made the driver seat need to be way too far forward.

    DS said he wanted to be in the 4th row, so I put him back there in the Pkwy. He changed his mind, though, after sitting in it for a minute because he said it was "too tipsy." So I had DS, DD2 (in the BLVD) and DD1 (in her Pkwy) all on the 3rd row. So it was set up the exact same as I have our Sienna right now. (The 4th row was empty.) We wouldn't keep that set-up if we decide to buy the van, but I just thought it was funny that that's the way it worked out tonight.

    To answer some questions....
    zeo2ski, I don't think there are any safety advantages of the Sprinter over the other vans. None of the big vans have side-curtain airbags yet along the back rows. I wish they'd do something about that.

    Christine, the boosters are actually working great in the back of the Sienna right now. I have the 2 Pkwys on either side of the BLVD and because the BLVD is up on a base, the kids can reach the buckles just fine. I actually tried moving the BLVD over to the passenger side and putting the Pkwys side-by-side, but they couldn't buckle them that way.

    KQ, I was quite frustrated because this van we borrowed tonight didn't come w/the instruction manual. I'm glad you'd said something about not installing carseats on the back row. Although I'd really like some clarification about that from Ford because it seems like it'd be just fine as long as you didn't try to get 4 carseats side-by-side back there. I looked, but couldn't figure out where to attach the TA on the BLVD, so I left it off for our ride tonight. I know you said they were there, but I couldn't see anything that resembled a TA. The good news is that I found a spot on the driver's seat that I could wrap a D-ring around to secure the RF tether on the RN. It is annoying that there are only 2 LATCH spots, though. That seems silly seeing as there's plenty of space for more. As far as adding headrests, many here (at c-s.org) I know look down on after-market things, but I feel like it's a safety issue to NOT have them. I know a man who does tons of custom work on vehicles. He can add headrests and TAs (I had him add TAs in the 3rd row of our old Odyssey). So we'll have that done if we get one of these vans.

    Momof4Girls, living in UT, snow and ice are definitely concerns. And we have a very steep driveway. But DH reminded me that his family and mine both had rear-wheel drive vans while we were growing up, and neither of us remember having too many issues with them. So hopefully that will be the case. And I don't mind doing like you have and leaving the van at the bottom of the driveway a couple days a year if it's really bad.

    Jennifer, I agree with your whole post. As long as these vans are driven carefully (like ANY vehicle should be), they are safe vehicles. Most of the accidents I've heard of have been teenage drivers doing stupid things, or people who weren't really familiar with the vehicles trying to make it do something it can't (like the things you listed).

    Brie, we've considered getting an SUV, but I seriously hate SUVs. My brother has an Excursion and we call it "The Beast." An SUV won't give us anymore passenger room. They may be *slightly* wider, but they don't fit anymore seats, so I really don't see the point, other than the 4-wheel drive in the winter. Plus they cost almost double what these vans cost. I just can't handle that much money being spent every month on a vehicle I don't like.

    I'm going to take the van in tomorrow to the guy I know who does after-market stuff and make sure he can add headrests and then we'll go from there. If he can't, I think that's probably a deal-breaker. So I guess we'll see.

    I'd definitely be giving up a lot of creature-comforts if we switch, and that, along with a number of other reasons is making this decision extremely hard. So if any of you have more thoughts, feel free to voice them. I still really don't know what we're going to do and it's driving me crazy.

    DD1 13y 5-stepsDS1 12y 5-steps
    DD2 9y IncognitoDD3 7y Pink Monterey
    DD4 5y FF Flora RN XTSLDS2 3y RF Red RN XTSLDS3 Cowmoo Britax Chaperone

  15. #14
    Moderator - CPST Instructor QuassEE's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I'd be so jealous if you end up with a Sprinter. That's my dream people-hauler. I only have four kids, but imagine how many friends we could take?! I really like the reliability aspect of the Sprinter as compared to the Ford vans, and the fact that they're really quite high up so you're getting a lot of volume of space relative to the footprint of the vehicle (easier parking).. If I had more than just 4 kids, I'd get a Sprinter in a heartbeat...or if DH would be willing to do a cross-country trip (here to Florida and back?!) it would be the ideal vehicle for us. I know they handle way nicer than the Fords too, and wouldn't worry about the rollover aspect... People who tend to roll SUVs and vans are inexperienced drivers who're exceeding the speed limit (by quite a bit)...

    -Nicole.

    Abbi (9, Ozzi/Olli), Aiden (11, Affix), Mason (16), & Kyle (18) in '02 Protege5 & '11 Ody TE.
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  16. #15
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Yeah, Ford said you can't do it but if it's a Britax with the narrow base or a Recaro or a Radian or a CarGo or... I can think of many that would fit between the anchors. I'm wondering if someday they won't reverse that advice if enough of us pester them about it, and say you can as long as it fits between the anchors and you get a secure install. Like GMC did with the old Jimmys that had in the manual not to put a seat in the center seat.

    The anchors for the outboard seats are a little pair of holes in the leg. It's kind of sideways I think, and it is hard to spot. It took me 5 minutes to find, WITH the manual. But, once you find one, you can find them all and when you know what you're looking for you won't have trouble again.

    I actually agree with you on the aftermarket headrest thing. It's not feasible for everyone who has more than 6-7 kids to have a Sprinter, but really, everyone should have a headrest. If my choice was no headrests or aftermarket headrests, I'd get them. As long as the work is done well so it's compatible with the vehicle, and quality, crash-worthy materials are used, I don't see how it would harm anything.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  17. #16
    Carseat Crazy Chex's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    Thanks, KQ. I'll have to go hunt for the anchors again today before we take it back.

    QuassEE, I would LOVE a Sprinter. And there are a lot of good arguments for getting one, but the biggest factor in NOT getting one is, unfortunately, price. They're $30k or more and the vans we're looking at are all right around $15k or $16. That's obviously a huge price difference and I just don't know if I can justify it. I really wish we just had the cash to do it, but it's out of our budget.

    DD1 13y 5-stepsDS1 12y 5-steps
    DD2 9y IncognitoDD3 7y Pink Monterey
    DD4 5y FF Flora RN XTSLDS2 3y RF Red RN XTSLDS3 Cowmoo Britax Chaperone

  18. #17
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    My husband and I are in the same boat as you. Right now I drive a Chevy Suburban, but we have 5 kids now, ages 6, 4, 4, 3, and 1, who are all in car seats, and we're expecting our second set of twins in October. We have had the Suburban for a few years now, but it is pretty crowded in the back now as it is. Plus, we would like something bigger for when we have extra friends and/or family riding with us. We are looking into a Dodge Sprinter. I know you said it is out of your range, though. The best deal you're going to get for your money is the Ford E250. It's the cheapest price wise in the 10 to 12 passenger range. Then there's the GMC Savana and then the Chevy Express. We're looking more into the Sprinter for size, of course, style, and we've read rave reviews on the engine and overall quality. We hope to test drive one here soon as October is quickly approaching. Good luck in your search! I know you mentioned the Ford and Chevy, but check out the Savana if you haven't. It's a pretty nice van too.

  19. #18
    CPS Fanatic zeo2ski's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I'm so relieved to find out that it's not the vans themselves, but the reckless driving! We were seriously considering a small bus instead of a van, but to go straight from suburban to bus...whoa.

    So the 15 passenger vans--those are less safe than the 12 pass? And what if you remove the last row and just use that for cargo space? I know in college we weren't allowed to ride in the last row, but I can't remember if cargo was allowed there or not. Of course those vans were older so no stabilitrack.

    2007 is when they started putting stabilitrac on the Ford/Chevys?
    Cathy
    B-- 6.5y harnessed cowmoo FR85;
    Sl--5y RF RXT;
    H-- 2.5 RF RNXT;M--7mos CCOA--1 mos KF30 and R 1.5 RXT

  20. #19
    CPS Technician strollerfreak's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    I really do like my E350...I've had it since last November (so getting close to a year) and while it drives *different* than my Suburban did, it doesn't drive any better/worse.

    I am getting headrests installed on my benches by the company that makes the seats themselves (perks of having my DH work for Ford, LOL!)...and hopefully the first bench will be done within the month.

    I have a Regent & Recaro Start in the 4th row...I don't think I'd ever really try to put 4 seats there...we pretty much consider it a 3 seater row as well. I too couldn't get a Radian installed (to my liking) anywhere in it with the seatbelt geometry. I also have the seats in the 4th row in this configuration { }X{ }X
    (X=empty seat) because of the poor seatbelt geometry/HBB combination with both a Parkway & an AirBooster.

    We did talk about getting a 15 passenger vs. a 12 passenger, specifically for the extra cargo space, but the extra length messes with the towing capacity, and we have a 28' travel trailer that *I* tow and I didn't want to mess with that, so we opted for the 12 passenger.

    We've done 2 trips to Michigan with all the kids twice since having it and cargo space hasn't been an issue...you can cram lots of crap under those benches, and if you plan on doing laundry once while you are at your destination, you cut down on SO much stuff you have to pack...

    I also did this bench comparison with my FIL's '02 compared to my '08 as well...
    http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=87173
    ~Mel, Ex-CPST, Triathlete & Mom of 5ReiKids + 1E!!!

  21. #20
    CPS Fanatic zeo2ski's Avatar
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    Re: Which 10-12 passenger van is best?

    What about strollers? I'm talking double joggers, quad runabout...is there room for that kind of thing back there?

    Bummer about the Radian. Anybody tried a Complete Air yet?

    Now for driver inexperience--I know a lot of colleges make their staff take a training course before driving the 15 pass vans; is there anything like that for the public? Would it be necessary? We always drive with common sense, follow ALL speed limits and recommended corner speeds. Does just knowing the risks of these vans help, or are there specific driving skills to be learned?
    Cathy
    B-- 6.5y harnessed cowmoo FR85;
    Sl--5y RF RXT;
    H-- 2.5 RF RNXT;M--7mos CCOA--1 mos KF30 and R 1.5 RXT

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