What's the harm in a door mounted shoulder belt and cs?

christineka

New member
As I sit here wishing I could just take my 4 kids to mcdonalds' because I'm on the verge of having an emotional meltdown... (No, not going anywhere since I have only two car seats home anyway.)

If the seat could be installed with the lap belt, why can't you and just skip the shoulderbelt? It is so loose that it wouldn't interfere with the installation. In an accident it is supposed to tighten up (I have my doubts.), but it should stay in place. What is the harm in installing a car seat with a lap only belt where there is a door mounted shoulderbelt?
 
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safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
None. However, most cars with door mounted belts have lap belts that are ELR, (if it doesn't it has an airbag) and about half (all the fords) have anchor points so far forward of the bight that you need to install a secondary female end of the buckle (called a Cougar buckle) in order to get a decent install. If you can get a good install, go for it.
 

Maedze

New member
Just keep in mind if the lap belt is ELR, you cannot use it to install a child restraint without a belt shortening clip and an experienced technician.
 

Pixels

New member
What about door-mount for both lap and shoulder belts? I've seen in several CRS manuals, and I believe it was also discussed in my tech class that it's a no-no. The reason given in class was that if the door was to open, there wouldn't be anything holding the CRS in (ejection). But wouldn't that be the same for an adult occupant, so therefore nobody should ever use that seating position?
 

Mommy2Marcus

New member
What is an ELR lap belt?? Is it the kind that ratches back into the seat? I have a friend with this kind of belt in her center back seat with a Ford Explorer, I think that is what it is, & that is where she has her son's Scenera installed. Is this unsafe?? It is a good tight install that does not move! However it does not have a shoulder belt that attaches to it.
 

Evolily

New member
What is an ELR lap belt?? Is it the kind that ratches back into the seat? I have a friend with this kind of belt in her center back seat with a Ford Explorer, I think that is what it is, & that is where she has her son's Scenera installed. Is this unsafe?? It is a good tight install that does not move! However it does not have a shoulder belt that attaches to it.

That's an ALR. An ELR only locks in an emergency.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
No, that's an ALR lap belt. Automatic locking retractor. An ELR belt, emergency locking retractor, only locks in an emergency. For an ELR shoulder and lap belt you use a locking clip. For an ELR lap belt only you need a belt shortening clip and someone who knows how to use one (in over three years I've never even seen it done, nevermind having done it myself).

Wendy
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
What about door-mount for both lap and shoulder belts? I've seen in several CRS manuals, and I believe it was also discussed in my tech class that it's a no-no. The reason given in class was that if the door was to open, there wouldn't be anything holding the CRS in (ejection). But wouldn't that be the same for an adult occupant, so therefore nobody should ever use that seating position?

Yup. They are horribly less than safe, and that's why no car companies make them anymore. It was just some crazy way of making restraints automatic so people wouldn't have to think about buckling up, but it's a big fat fail :thumbsup:

And for carseats, it wouldn't even be a problem just in a crash, but you couldn't open the door at all without the seat falling out, and it's kind of tough to load a baby through the driver's side door or back seat all the time....

:)
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
And for carseats, it wouldn't even be a problem just in a crash, but you couldn't open the door at all without the seat falling out, and it's kind of tough to load a baby through the driver's side door or back seat all the time....

:)

Not to mention you'd have to install the seat from the driver's side in the first place (not easy considering you'd have to use a belt shortening clip) and that the anchor points would be totally and completely wonky.
 

christineka

New member
The lap belt locks. Is it still elr? This is a ford. I will likely never ever put a car seat (with child) in the front. I just wanted to know why I couldn't other than up front is not very safe. I have put car seats by themselves up front. I've lost the vehicle manual, so I don't know if there is a passenger air bag or not.
 

Maedze

New member
How does it lock? I've never seen a door mounted lap shoulder with a locking lap belt, but of course it's possible.
 

christineka

New member
We'll see if I can get dh to deal with pics. I do have some of the baby that need to be uploaded anyway.

The belt just locks after you buckle. I don't know how it is. Maybe I haven't played with it enough and it doesn't really lock. I'll have to go and check it out.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Thomas came home from the hospital riding in the front seat of a '92 Eagle Summit (Dodge Colt clone), in a baseless infant seat.

The Summit had a door-mounted shoulder belt, switchable lap-belt. For car seat installation, you just undid the shoulder belt and let it retract so it was out of the way, and switched the lap-belt to ALR. It was a very easy install, actually.
 

christineka

New member
I went out, played, and took pics, but dh is busy.

I pulled the lap belt out a little way, stopped, then it was locked. So, then I put in the avenue, tested it and it didn't budge. So, does that mean I'm set in case I absolutely have to take 4 kids in that car?
 

Pixels

New member
And for carseats, it wouldn't even be a problem just in a crash, but you couldn't open the door at all without the seat falling out, and it's kind of tough to load a baby through the driver's side door or back seat all the time....

:)

I didn't even think about that part. With the lap belt mounted on the door and locked for a carseat install, you wouldn't be able to open the door at all. Ever. Unless you uninstalled the carseat.

I guess I'm still having a hard time reconciling that it's okay to use that for an adult, but not a carseat. With an adult, if the door opens, adult falls out. With a carseat (traditional, hard shell), if the door opens, the carseat would still be at least sort of retained because of the seatbelt going through the shell. Plus it would be much less likely for the door to open, since the seatbelt would be holding it closed.

Don't worry, I won't install a carseat in such a vehicle/position. I'm just not 100% sure that it makes sense in my head.
 

christineka

New member
So the lap belt does does attach to the door?

No. The lap belt is attached to the side of the car. It is only the shoulder belt that attaches to the door. It slides forward when you open the door and slides back when you turn the car on. The lap belt is completely separate from the shoulder belt. People who are not familiar with the car tend to think the shoulder belt is all there is and don't know to look for a lap belt.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
are you talkign aboutthe escort? I have a 92 ish escort, with a belt setup like you are describing. the lap belt is just a plain regular locking lapbelt, installed inside the car, not attached to the door. the shoulder belt is a stupid, asinine contraption that automatically slides along the doorframe and strangles you when you enter or exit the car. the lap belt and shoulder belt are not attached to each other at all.
If i had to, I would feel okay installing a carseat in that front position (there aren't even any airbags in my car, so ffing or rfing), installed with just that locking lapbelt, and the stupid shoudler belt detached out of the way.
 

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