15 Passanger Busses....

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 23, 2009

Feel free to move this, not sure where it needs to go.

My DD's preschool has one of these 15 passanger busses, like you see for daycares picking up kids. I was talking with the owner today and he said that this school year they are planning a lot of outing (like to the museum, zoo, parks, etc...).

OK, my question - car seats and these "busses". I know you don't need a CDL to operate them, so I would think they have different saftey standards than a regular school bus? I have looked at some online that have both sholder and lap belts (not sure what this one has, haven't looked at it), but my DD is no where mature enough or big enough to be in one (33 lbs with a short torso and I can guarentee she won't sit properly in them - she's always been in a harness and falls asleep with longer car rides - usually over 20 mins.). Are car seat allowed on these busses?

ETA: I can get pics of it next week when she has class on Monday

April · Jul 23, 2009

I don't let our kids ride in them at all. As far as I know, car seats can be installed in them. At least the one that they have at my DD2 & DS2's preschool. I'm just not comfortable with them though. I've kept them home from field trips once this year already, and my DD1 & DS1 have both been kept home or used alternate transportation when their before & afterschool program used their 15 pass van instead of their school buses.

There are lots of threads here about them, but basically they are a huge rollover risk, many (if not all?) don't have headrests, the fatality rate in them is very high, and I just don't want someone driving my kids in THAT vehicle especially when its full of screaming children. A quick google search for "15 passenger van safety" will give you lots and lots of info.:twocents:

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 23, 2009

April said:
I don't let our kids ride in them at all. As far as I know, car seats can be installed in them. At least the one that they have at my DD2 & DS2's preschool. I'm just not comfortable with them though. I've kept them home from field trips once this year already, and my DD1 & DS1 have both been kept home or used alternate transportation when their before & afterschool program used their 15 pass van instead of their school buses.

There are lots of threads here about them, but basically they are a huge rollover risk, many (if not all?) don't have headrests, the fatality rate in them is very high, and I just don't want someone driving my kids in THAT vehicle especially when its full of screaming children. A quick google search for "15 passenger van safety" will give you lots and lots of info.:twocents:

Yeah I know vans are extremly dagerous, but this is like a little school bus? Those have rool over risks aswell?

MomToEliEm · Jul 23, 2009

babygirlsmom1005 said:
Yeah I know vans are extremly dagerous, but this is like a little school bus? Those have rool over risks aswell?

So it is a bus and not one of those vans? My DD's preschool uses the short buses and I let my kids use them. Ours only has lap belts on them, but I still allowed them to go. I feel that the short buses are a little safer then those 15-passenger vans.

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 23, 2009

MomToEliEm said:
So it is a bus and not one of those vans? My DD's preschool uses the short buses and I let my kids use them. Ours only has lap belts on them, but I still allowed them to go. I feel that the short buses are a little safer then those 15-passenger vans.

Yeah it's a short bus....not a passanger van - no way I would let her get into one of those, espically if it's a conversion van, all the structure of the roofs have been taken out of those and replaced with fiber glass.

CTPDMom · Jul 23, 2009

This is interesting reading relative to the topic:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/pub/noncom.hmp.html

Pixels · Jul 23, 2009

If they have seat belts, you can install carseats in them. No unbelted passenger should sit in the seat immediately behind a belted passenger (or child in a carseat). The seat legs have to be reinforced to be strong enough to hold a belted passenger (or carseat). If you have a belted passenger/carseat in one seat, and behind is an unrestrained passenger, the one in back will hit the seat in front, and add their weight to the seat. Combined it may be too much for that one seat to hold. A simple way to ensure no unrestrained passenger will be behind the seat a carseat is installed on is to install the carseat in the very last row of seats.

If you send a carseat for your child, will it be installed properly? Will your child be buckled properly? What about the other children on the bus? Is it legal where you are for children in that age/height/weight range to be unrestrained (or in the seatbelt only) on a short bus run by a daycare? Many states have exemptions for busses, but the exemptions may apply only to schools. Even if there is an exemption, children are not protected by compartmentalization unless they are about 40 pounds.

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 23, 2009

pixels99 said:
If they have seat belts, you can install carseats in them. No unbelted passenger should sit in the seat immediately behind a belted passenger (or child in a carseat). The seat legs have to be reinforced to be strong enough to hold a belted passenger (or carseat). If you have a belted passenger/carseat in one seat, and behind is an unrestrained passenger, the one in back will hit the seat in front, and add their weight to the seat. Combined it may be too much for that one seat to hold. A simple way to ensure no unrestrained passenger will be behind the seat a carseat is installed on is to install the carseat in the very last row of seats.

If you send a carseat for your child, will it be installed properly? Will your child be buckled properly? What about the other children on the bus? Is it legal where you are for children in that age/height/weight range to be unrestrained (or in the seatbelt only) on a short bus run by a daycare? Many states have exemptions for busses, but the exemptions may apply only to schools. Even if there is an exemption, children are not protected by compartmentalization unless they are about 40 pounds.

Yeah Madeline has 7 lbs from being 40 lbs and lack maturity to sit in a seat belt, and that could take her a couple of years to put on. I do know the director wouldn't have a problem with me installing her seat for her and showing her how to use it (Madeline can instruct as well - she's good at that

). Thanks for the info about not having a unbuckled passanger behind her, I wouldn't of thought of that. I just want to make sure we're prepared for when it happens *if* I'm not able to go along with the field trip and transport her in my own vehicle. As far as legal for her to be in just a seat belt, no, Texas (thankfully) just passed the law for 8 years old or 4'9", so she's far from that.

swtgi1982 · Jul 23, 2009

If that is the law then the preschool should be requiring all kids to bring their car seats. I know my DD preschool makes it mandatory for all kids to ride in a car seat!

Unregistered1 · Jul 23, 2009

Ask your daycare provider if the bus has built in harnesses/car seats. This is an option with many of these smaller busses. Ours has integrated five point harnesses and they are amazing, I am completely comfortable with A riding in this bus. The seats are also compartmentalized like a larger bus so the older children are safe (although I'm still dealing with the issue of whether or not they should use the lap only belts provided). The compartmentalization should keep children over 40 lbs and around school age safe, but if there are no integrated child restraints I would definitely say send a car seat, if possible install it yourself, because I know no one at my job knew how to do the car seats properly before I started.

I really have confidence in the small busses. 15 passenger vans are a different story... we used to use one of those and there's no way I would have ever let A ride in it.

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 27, 2009

OK I checked out the bus today, no built in 5 point harness, has sholder/lap belts.

I was talking to the director about it and she has no problem with me installing Madeline's car seat into the bus when they go on field trips. I also explained about the 40 lbs thing and she said it makes sense and never thought about that and that she'll be sure to discuss with parents of the other kids about this (if their child is under 40 lbs or not, I told her there was no way Madeline would be 40 lbs by her 4th birthday in Oct., she's only 33 lbs right now and gains weight very slowly) as well and possibly try to get them to provide the carseats for them to use (she said that would be a parental decision though). She said that she will discuss with a guy from the state as well and see what he has to say about it.

I'm just happy she has no issues with me putting in a carseat for Madeline....which now I get to find one for school - he he he - because I don't wanna play swap the Frontier out for every shool field trip, which gives me even more of a reason to get a Radian LOL

Pixels · Jul 27, 2009

I don't know the specifics of the Texas law, but in most places it's the (legal) responsibility of the driver, not the parent, to make sure that the child is properly restrained. The preschool could be opening themself up to a whole lotta liability if they allow the parents to choose not to use a seat for their child.

It's possible that the short bus falls under the same exemption in the law that big busses run by schools have, where the children don't have to wear a seatbelt. I'm guessing that it doesn't, though, since there are lap-shoulder belts in the bus.

babygirlsmom1005 · Jul 27, 2009

pixels99 said:
I don't know the specifics of the Texas law, but in most places it's the (legal) responsibility of the driver, not the parent, to make sure that the child is properly restrained. The preschool could be opening themself up to a whole lotta liability if they allow the parents to choose not to use a seat for their child.

It's possible that the short bus falls under the same exemption in the law that big busses run by schools have, where the children don't have to wear a seatbelt. I'm guessing that it doesn't, though, since there are lap-shoulder belts in the bus.

I'll let the director know and see if she can research it and find out if regular school bus laws/exemptions apply to these mini buses or if regular motor vehicle law applies (if regular every kid under 8 years old or 4'9" will need to be in some type of car seat).

Qarin · Jul 27, 2009

Looks from my preliminary reading that the law applies to "passenger vehicles", just as the old (awful) one did, and defines:

"Passenger vehicle" means a passenger car, light truck, sport utility vehicle, truck, or truck tractor.

So I don't think the van is going to fall under that requirement, unfortunately.

15 Passanger Busses....

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