Older/higher milage Mazda 5 or newer/lower milage Impala?

Unregistered1 · Jun 27, 2009

I went and looked at cars today and I really liked the Mazda 5 and the Chevy Impala. (also liked the Pontiac Grand Prix which is essentially an Impala, and some of the minivans - any opinions on Chrysler T&C or Dodge Grand Caravan?)

Anyways, I saw a 2006 Mazda 5 with low milage (30,000 ish) but it was out of my price range, but I really liked the vehicle. If I purchased one of these it would have to either have higher milage or be an older year (they haven't been making them that long, have they? 04? 05?)

The Impala I saw was also a 2006 and was closer to my price range with similar milage. So I could likely get an 06 for the price range I'm looking at.

I don't know much about ownership costs of these vehicles or kinks/issues with each one, so I'm looking for opinions as to whether it would be better to get an older or higher milage Mazda 5 or a newer, somewhat lower milage Impala. Or also if any of the other vehicles I looked at were preferable to these two options - these are just the ones I liked best and the ones I had heard good things about.

bubbaray · Jun 27, 2009

Edmunds seems to indicate that 2006 was the first model year for the Mazda5 in North America: http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/mazda5/2006/review.html

I seem to recall that in the first model year, there was no AC in the third row, but they subsequently fixed that. So, if you live somewhere hot and will have kids in the back (it might even be in the 2nd row), that is something to consider.

Other than that, I'd probably go with the Mazda, they are really popular.

GL!

bobandjess99 · Jun 27, 2009

the impala and vans you mentioned have "acceptable" ratings..my preference would be to try and get something that rates "good", but I would accept an "acceptable", if all other things worked out. The 5 hasn't been tested by iihs here, but gets very good ratigns in european testing, so i feel comfortable with it. That's safety-wise. MPG-wise, I wouldn't get an impala, because for 18mpg around town, I want 7 seats. For a sedan, I want better mileage that that.
I do not like the caravan/T&C vans..safetywise, they aren't the greatest(especially i they dont have the optional side airbags, they are poor), reliabilitywise they are lacking, and I just find them to be not nearly as nice as the foreign vans.

A cars.com search just revelaed a ton of 06 impalas in the $10K range, so i assume that is where you are looking...personally, in that range, I'd get an 06-7 Sedona if you want a minivan...there are some 06-07 mazda5's in that range as well, depending on how far you are willing to travel (I put my radius at 150 miles) and that would be nice to get better mileage and 6 pass-seating...if I was going sedan, I'd go for something safe with good mileage, like an 05-06 accord or 06+ Jetta or 04+ Camry W/SAB.

southpawboston · Jun 27, 2009

bubbaray said:
Edmunds seems to indicate that 2006 was the first model year for the Mazda5 in North America: http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/mazda5/2006/review.html

I seem to recall that in the first model year, there was no AC in the third row, but they subsequently fixed that. So, if you live somewhere hot and will have kids in the back (it might even be in the 2nd row), that is something to consider.

Other than that, I'd probably go with the Mazda, they are really popular.

GL!

yep, 06 was the first year in the US, 05 in other markets.

06 and 07 US models had only front vents for the AC. in 07 or 08 they added a vent behind the console for 2nd row passengers, but no third row vents. other than that and some tiny little other improvements, the mazda5s are identical between 06-09.

Defrost · Jun 27, 2009

southpawboston said:
06 and 07 US models had only front vents for the AC. in 07 or 08 they added a vent behind the console for 2nd row passengers, but no third row vents. other than that and some tiny little other improvements, the mazda5s are identical between 06-09.

One of the other tiny improvements was an arm rest for the passenger seat (added in '08). Also, the 2nd row vents they added in '08 are only air/A/C - no heat.

That said, we've never had a major problem with either too hot or too cold in the 3rd row - it's not a van, so they're really not that far away. It's just a minor inconvenience.

The 3rd row seats weren't improved until '09. (They moved the seat belt anchor back, and possibly made the 3rd row seats a bit more upright.)

southpawboston · Jun 27, 2009

Defrost said:
One of the other tiny improvements was an arm rest for the passenger seat (added in '08). Also, the 2nd row vents they added in '08 are only air/A/C - no heat.

That said, we've never had a major problem with either too hot or too cold in the 3rd row - it's not a van, so they're really not that far away. It's just a minor inconvenience.

The 3rd row seats weren't improved until '09. (They moved the seat belt anchor back, and possibly made the 3rd row seats a bit more upright.)

lol, yeah, i know about the passenger armrest. believe it or not, that little detail was one of the major reasons we didn't get one in 06. during the test drives we kept reaching our elbows down and saying "hey, where's the armrest??!!" why the heck the omitted just that one armrest is baffling.

so they moved the seatbelts back on the 3rd row so they fit over the shoulder better?

Unregistered1 · Jun 27, 2009

Can you elaborate on what was flawed about the third row seats of the Mazda that they fixed in 09?

I will have two kids in harnessed seats and one in a seat belt at this point, and she will definitely be in the second row if I go that route, so the seat belt geometry in the third row may not even be a problem. Also, as far as AC/heat, I currently drive a sedan with NO AC (so any AC would be an improvement) and I do have heat but only front vents there too. The girls have car blankets for the winter.

The reason I was looking at the Impala as a sedan was because of the wide back seat. I will be transporting three children semi-regularly so I can't go for a smaller car, and I'm unable to fit a combination that I'm happy with in my 90 Accord (The Nautilus is so wide). I checked its ratings on NHTSA's website and I think it got five stars in everything except side impact... but it has side air bags so that's nice... how are the IIHS standards/testing different? Also, the outboard kiddos will be in 5 point harnesses or eventually a booster with decent SIP, and well, anything is an improvement for me considering if I wreck this car I'm driving right now, my head gets far too friendly with the steering wheel.

I don't like the Kia Sedona so much because I've heard there are a lot of maintenence issues with it, and that the quality is just somewhat lacking. I liked it pretty well at first but it seems like a lot of people here have had problems with it.

Maedze · Jun 27, 2009

The third row of the Mazda 5 was definitely quirky. I've never seen a more fantastic FAIL in terms of compatability with the Radian. Has anyone tried putting a Radian in the third row of an 09?

bobandjess99 · Jun 27, 2009

MissKatie said:
Can you elaborate on what was flawed about the third row seats of the Mazda that they fixed in 09?

I semi-regularly so I can't go for a smaller car, and I'm unable to fit a combination that I'm happy with in my 90 Accord (The Nautilus is so wide). I checked its ratings on NHTSA's website and I think it got five stars in everything except side impact... but it has side air bags so that's nice... how are the IIHS standards/testing different? a lot of people here have had problems with it.

YES! The testing is completely different. and the scary thing is, while almost all cars get 4-5 stars in the nhtsa testing, only a few cars get the highest iihs ratings. I personally feel the iihs test to be a more stringent and relevent test, and try to base my decisions more from it, although both are useful. here is a really good description of the different testing methods.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/43804/article.html

Defrost · Jun 28, 2009

MissKatie said:
Can you elaborate on what was flawed about the third row seats of the Mazda that they fixed in 09?

In the '06-'08 models, the 3rd row seat belts are anchored at the bottom (on the floor) forward of the seat-bight. To further complicate matters, the retractor is also extremely forward of the vehicle seat, so that when even an average-sized adult sits there, the shoulder belt is about an inch or so in front of them instead of resting on the collarbone. For kids in backless boosters, the gap is as much as 3-4 inches. In a HBB, the seat belt actually has to route backwards to fit through the belt guide.

Pic of the gap:

I have only had a brief opportunity to check out the '09 models, but the seat belt anchor in the floor was moved back, so it's now closer to the bight. The retractor is still in the same location, but it appeared to me that the seat itself was more upright, lessening the gap. Again, I didn't have a chance to really explore that possibility - it may have just been an illusion or wishful thinking on my part. There was still a gap between my collarbone and the seat belt when I sat there, though.

Maedze said:
The third row of the Mazda 5 was definitely quirky. I've never seen a more fantastic FAIL in terms of compatability with the Radian. Has anyone tried putting a Radian in the third row of an 09?

Yes, I took a Radian XT to the dealership and tried it in an '09, with the same results I have in my '07 - it's rock-solid side-to-side, but very easily slips out when you test back-to-front movement. Looking down from the top of the carseat, this is how much of a gap you end up with between the back of the Radian and the back of the vehicle seat:

Unregistered1 · Jun 28, 2009

Defrost said:
In the '06-'08 models, the 3rd row seat belts are anchored at the bottom (on the floor) forward of the seat-bight. To further complicate matters, the retractor is also extremely forward of the vehicle seat, so that when even an average-sized adult sits there, the shoulder belt is about an inch or so in front of them instead of resting on the collarbone. For kids in backless boosters, the gap is as much as 3-4 inches. In a HBB, the seat belt actually has to route backwards to fit through the belt guide.

Pic of the gap:

I have only had a brief opportunity to check out the '09 models, but the seat belt anchor in the floor was moved back, so it's now closer to the bight. The retractor is still in the same location, but it appeared to me that the seat itself was more upright, lessening the gap. Again, I didn't have a chance to really explore that possibility - it may have just been an illusion or wishful thinking on my part. There was still a gap between my collarbone and the seat belt when I sat there, though.

Yes, I took a Radian XT to the dealership and tried it in an '09, with the same results I have in my '07 - it's rock-solid side-to-side, but very easily slips out when you test back-to-front movement. Looking down from the top of the carseat, this is how much of a gap you end up with between the back of the Radian and the back of the vehicle seat:

Would I be able to install either a GN or a RF Boulevard back there? How do you think the seat belt would do with a high back booster like the Vivo or Turbo?

Defrost · Jun 28, 2009

MissKatie said:
Would I be able to install either a GN or a RF Boulevard back there? How do you think the seat belt would do with a high back booster like the Vivo or Turbo?

The GN and the Britax convertibles (I've only tried the MA) install fine in the 3rd row. Not easy installs in my car, but I suspect much better in the '09 models, and really not all that bad even in the older models. RF MA was fine, too. The only serious incompatibility I've come across is the Radian FF. Everything else was a just major PITB.

I haven't tried the Vivo and I've only ever seen it IRL once, so I'm not sure about it, but I personally wouldn't use the TB back there. The belt is so deformed by the angle that I'm not comfortable with it. If someone came into a seat check with that combination, I'd show them the problem, explain the theoretical risk (in a crash, the entire booster is going to have to travel that extra 3-4 inches before the seat belt even thinks about engaging) and leave it up to them.

The Monterey and Frontier boosters fit better, though, and I'd be more comfortable using those. I'm currently using a Recaro Start, which might also be a more reasonable option now that they're clearing them out and not quite as expensive as they used to be.

Unregistered1 · Jun 28, 2009

Defrost said:
The GN and the Britax convertibles (I've only tried the MA) install fine in the 3rd row. Not easy installs in my car, but I suspect much better in the '09 models, and really not all that bad even in the older models. RF MA was fine, too. The only serious incompatibility I've come across is the Radian FF. Everything else was a just major PITB.

I haven't tried the Vivo and I've only ever seen it IRL once, so I'm not sure about it, but I personally wouldn't use the TB back there. The belt is so deformed by the angle that I'm not comfortable with it. If someone came into a seat check with that combination, I'd show them the problem, explain the theoretical risk (in a crash, the entire booster is going to have to travel that extra 3-4 inches before the seat belt even thinks about engaging) and leave it up to them.

The Monterey and Frontier boosters fit better, though, and I'd be more comfortable using those. I'm currently using a Recaro Start, which might also be a more reasonable option now that they're clearing them out and not quite as expensive as they used to be.

Sorry for asking so many questions... but how are the third row installs a PITB? What problems have you had as far as getting a good install? Whatever I buy is going to have my car seats in it first, but I'd just like to have some idea, kwim? With three kids I can easily put any boostered/seat belt child in the second row and the baby in the back, but extra options might be nice.

Unregistered1 · Jun 28, 2009

MissKatie said:
Sorry for asking so many questions... but how are the third row installs a PITB? What problems have you had as far as getting a good install? Whatever I buy is going to have my car seats in it first, but I'd just like to have some idea, kwim? With three kids I can easily put any boostered/seat belt child in the second row and the baby in the back, but extra options might be nice.

Nevermind, I just read it up in the install forum.

Defrost · Jun 28, 2009

MissKatie said:
Nevermind, I just read it up in the install forum.

LOL! Yeah the "tricks" needed for the GN install are pretty typical of the issues we've encountered with that row. It's very unusual; they're not typical newer vehicle/carseat issues. So far as I can tell it's just a really bad combination of seat belt configuration, static seats that don't recline or move at all, and very little cushion so that compressing is harder.

A FF MA, btw, has totally different tricks than the GN. You have shove it in there super-upright.

At this point, though, I really don't think I'd let it dissuade me from buying this car. It has so many other things that make up for it, and I rarely re-install my seats, so the headaches I had when we first bought it are gone, and I'm just lovin' the rest of the car!

Gypsy · Jun 28, 2009

See now, it would prevent me from buying one.

I understand why it doesn't bother you anymore though Debbie, you have 4 kids - they each have a seat - rarely does anyone else use those seating positions, even when they do, you have compatible seats to choose from.

For someone with less than 4 kids, or someone who frequently has different kids in the car, or pre-teens/teenagers on the small side etc. I don't think it's really a good choice with the 3rd row issues.

Examples...

Lets say I have a Radian and Turbobooster for my two kids, and my 12 & 13 year old nieces are spending 2 weeks with me in the summer, or going to an amusement park with us or something.

Who goes in the 3rd row? No one will fit!

OR

Lets say I am a Nanny or have a small home daycare - the parents provide the seats and I never know what kid/seat I'll have on any given day.

OR

I have incompatible seats, but my frail grandparents are visiting and *someone* has to go in the 3rd row - the elderly folk can't make it back to the 3rd row.

I think for *you* it's absolutely perfect - seriously. If the 3rd row issues are *indeed* fixed with MY 2009 and newer vehicles, I'd consider it for my next vehicle or for my mom's next vehicle, but I mostly see that 3rd row as unusable for every day spontaneous situations - I mean you even got a *custom* 86Y so you could put your adult sized teenager back there, most people don't even know the problem exists and certainly wouldn't get a custom harness made for it!

Defrost · Jun 28, 2009

Gypsy said:
I think for *you* it's absolutely perfect - seriously. If the 3rd row issues are *indeed* fixed with MY 2009 and newer vehicles, I'd consider it for my next vehicle or for my mom's next vehicle, but I mostly see that 3rd row as unusable for every day spontaneous situations - I mean you even got a *custom* 86Y so you could put your adult sized teenager back there, most people don't even know the problem exists and certainly wouldn't get a custom harness made for it!

Yeah, but when Fighter or Macha outgrow their current seat (whichever happens first - I'm betting on Fighter) Thomas will go back to the third row, no 86Y. By now he fits just as well behind that shoulder belt as I do, and the only problem with him being back there two years ago was his lack of maturity - he wouldn't stay behind the dang belt!

Even so, I do see your point. It really depends on the individual situation.

skipspin · Jul 2, 2009

I didn't carefully read the whole thread, but we had a PW and RA in the thrid row of the 09 we rented last month with no problems. The best geometry was great.

I didn't even bother trying the RN. I figured it was already established that it didn't work so why get all sweaty over it. I did want to try my RYS, but never got around to it. (We only had it one afternoon, then we were out of town. It's on my short list for our next vehicle next year, but I'm still wondering if I'll regret only having one extra seat.

Unregistered1 · Jul 2, 2009

ATM with more research it looks like the Mazda may not make the price range cutoff, which is too bad because I really like it. Maybe one will pop up at a good price and I'll get lucky

Older/higher milage Mazda 5 or newer/lower milage Impala?

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