News Dorel's response:thumbsdown:

Re: Dorel's response:thumbs down:

skaterbabscpst said:

Think about this as you continue with this line of 5reasoning:

Dorel has the highest FF requirements available on their convertibles AND were the first to offer 35 lb limit seats. Yes, this statement was stupid, but don't cut off the proverbial nose to spite the proverbial face. :two cents:

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That's what makes it so baffling. In many ways, Dorel has actually been on the cutting-edge with this stuff.

I did write to them today, and I did receive a response. But I'm too mentally exhausted to get into it right now.

I wrote to them too and got a response. But I sent to just the 'contact us' email on the UK website. I'll send to the emails suggested above too. One of the things I mentioned in my email is that I would have hoped Dorel would have used this opportunity to promote their products that RF to 35lbs. I mean, why not? Why they came out with the statements they did seems a little baffling when they already have the products needed to accomodate consumers interested in ERF.

Well, the news release was intended for the UK/European market. I don't think they realized the BMJ study would be such big news in the US, too.

The response I got was basically that there was a "misunderstanding." That they don't have seats in Europe to accommodate more than about 20 lbs, and they just don't want people to RF beyond the weight limits.

But they DO have at least one seat in Europe that RFs to 55 lbs, so I'm not sure where they're getting that. Plus, "Yes! RF, but do it safely! Here, we'll help you do it!" isn't exactly what I took away from their statement.

Basically it does come down to them not wanting to be bothered with it.

LISmama810 said:

Well, the news release was intended for the UK/European market. I don't think they realized the BMJ study would be such big news in the US, too.

The response I got was basically that there was a "misunderstanding." That they don't have seats in Europe to accommodate more than about 20 lbs, and they just don't want people to RF beyond the weight limits.

But they DO have at least one seat in Europe that RFs to 55 lbs, so I'm not sure where they're getting that. Plus, "Yes! RF, but do it safely! Here, we'll help you do it!" isn't exactly what I took away from their statement.

Basically it does come down to them not wanting to be bothered with it.

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My response was nothing like that and they were trying to tell me how much different things are in Europe
They acknowledged the Mobi and seemed to be more concerned I was NOT going to use in the USA.

From the response:
"Something to keep in mind is that Europe does have very different standards for car seats than they US does. This does not mean that one has better or worse standards, but that they are just different. Please also keep in mind that there are different standars for vehicles and the driving regulations are different in European countries than they are in the US. European car seats do not meet the safety standards of the US and are not legal for use. The Maxi-Cosi Mobi is a European model and should not be used in the US.



That being said we do recommend that a child be left rear facing as long as possible within the regulations for the particular car seat that they are using. It has been proven that children are five times less likely to be seriously or fataly injured in a collision if they are left rear facing between the ages of one and two years old. We absolutely do believe that a child should be rear facing until they reach the maximum height or weight for that mode for the car seat. Many of our car seats do have a higher weight and height limit for rear facing. "

Funny... this seems to be exactly OPPOSITE of their press release, huh? And what they responded to LISmama about 20 lb seats?

In case anyone was interested in reading the original report that prompted the reply from Dorel, I just found it.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/338/jun11_2/b1994

One thing that really gets me - I don't know what kind of seats (if any) Dorel sells in Sweden - is this part of the report: "...70-75% of Swedish children aged under 3 years travel in rear facing seats. ... There are no direct comparisons between rear facing and forward facing car seats as forward facing car seats are not commonly used in Sweden. ...
One study conducted 31 frontal crash tests with 12 month, 18 month, and 3 year old dummies restrained in both US and European rear facing and forward facing seats. All rear facing seats resulted in significantly lower injury measures for neck and chest compared with the forward facing seats; the European rear facing seats had the lowest injury risk."
It makes me a bit insane that in North America, where as a general rule we have bigger vehicles - especially in places like Alberta & Texas where people have more trucks than anything else! - we have these sad little car seats which can't even take our kids to 40lbs RF. Beyond that, even if the seats are rated to the same weights, why are the European seats outperforming American ones?! If the testing was equivalent, then the product should be equivalent. This tells me that despite that they say that the testing in North America is 'suitable', it's really not. Maybe North Americans would be better served to get our transport bodies to test to the same standards as European countries do. Sure it's different, but why? Is 100km/hr different just because the speed sign says 62mph? It doesn't make sense to me.

I just pulled up a growth chart for North America, and looking at them, a child would have to be above the 95% percentile on weight to break 40lbs before 36months old. With the obesity epidemic continuing to grow and affecting younger and younger children, I can't understand why car seat manufacturers aren't jumping all over this, making more and more seats that RF longer.

The fact that one who actually does is responding to this report by suggesting that kids would be happier (and only minimally less safe) by being turned FF just doesn't make any sense to me.

They might not lose too many customers overall if everyone just writes letters to the company, but it would have a bigger impact if anyone with free time or the desire would catch parents-to-be before they buy any of their products (specifically their seats) and tell them what this company said. I certainly will not be considering anything they make for my lo and will be recommending to others to do the same.

Dorel = :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

Melissa

I heard back from Dorel's British PR person. She really didn't have anything to say, except that I might want to look at the response that the Baby Product Association (www.b-p-a.org) released. With a few additions at the end, their statement is the same as Dorel's--verbatim. I'm not sure who's riding whose coat tails in that one.

I guess because this association agrees, we should be ok with it? Not sure what the point was.

Anyway, I went to the Baby Product Assn's wesite. They're basically a lobbying organization for kids' products. Dorel, Graco, Chicco, Britax, etc are all members.

Ironically, the organization really stresses the importance of safety in children's products. But they're clearly in the business of looking out for their members' bottom lines.

Sadly, they could choose to do a lot of good. One of the benefits of membership (for a company):

The opportunity to influence the content of British, European and International standards through the Association's representation on BSI Committees. The ability to make an input to the drafting of European and International Standards for baby and nursery products.

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They could take this rear-facing thing and really run with it, but I guess that would be too hard.

I feel bad for all the British ERF advocates. And their kids.

I got the same reply as LISmama810

dogmelissa said:

One thing that really gets me - I don't know what kind of seats (if any) Dorel sells in Sweden -

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They sell their Maxi-Cosi brand, you can check for yourself as it's in English or Swedish. http://www.maxi-cosi.com/ and select Sweden

Apart from the infant seats, they sell the Maxi-Cosi Mobi, a 9-25 kg RF ONLY seat, and 2 HBBs. As the Mobi is ECE certified its legal for sale and use all over Europe.

http://www.maxi-cosi.com/maxicosi/productdetail.aspx?id=18&tn=2
Manual here. http://www.maxi-cosi.com/media/producthandleidingen/maxicosi/07.05 EXI0154_GBA_MOBI_I_BW.pdf

In Sweden they don't market ANY FF toddler seats, while in the UK they market 5 different toddler seats, all FF-ONLY


If They were smart, they would just put the Mobi on the UK page and say, "hey, we got what you need if you want to follow the BMJ statment".

I suspect the reason both Dorel and Britax are so hesitant to do this is a liability issue, that they thereby admit that their current offerings are much less safe than what the could offer.

BR

/Marcus

I don't know if it's really a liability issue. You could say it's a liability issue that they have a seat available and they refuse to market it in the UK. Or it's a liability to expressly come out against RF.

I haven't heard anything else today. They're probably sick of me.

I personally believe that word of mouth is the strongest advertising there is. (Good or bad, either way). I know as a tech you can't recommend one seat over another, but you CAN educate parents on the business practices of different companies.

I also like the idea of printing out their own statements, taking a hilighter to it and taping it to wal-mart shelves across america. Seriously- like wal-mart employees care enough to notice within the first 2 weeks. (I know I am at my wal mart a lot more often than that too!).

Just my evil wheels turning.

mommy-medic said:

I also like the idea of printing out their own statements, taking a hilighter to it and taping it to wal-mart shelves across america. Seriously- like wal-mart employees care enough to notice within the first 2 weeks. (I know I am at my wal mart a lot more often than that too!).

Just my evil wheels turning.

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Yeah, except I don't WANT parents to read their statement. Most parents don't know they should be outraged by their advice.

crunchierthanthou said:

well, that could be seat dependent.

Signos have the combination of some of the deepest side wings with least leg room.

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This is true. I was dead set on RF'ing DS and at nearly 3 yo I was practically jamming him over the edge of the signo.

I uh, used an uptown for those last 2 or 3 weeks for my own sanity just to keep him RF to 3