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  1. #1
    Carseat Crazy
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    13 safest vehicles for 2007 from IIHS

    Saw this article and thought I would post it. The article basically says that no domestic vehicles made the list of 13 because the IIHS required a vehicle to have electronic stability control to be considered:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15820639/

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  3. #2
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Stability Control, it's not just for SUVs anymore;-)

  4. #3
    CPS Fanatic Simplysomething's Avatar
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    I saw that on the morning news programs today.

    Interesting how the American brands faired. (not well).
    apparently, people put stuff here.
    imagine:
    photos of my extremely adorable spawn.
    their stats and a
    witty quote.

    posted from my computer using the internet...
    Super SEEEEKRIT stuff here.

  5. #4
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    I'm sure some models would have made it, but none of the top models had stability control. The Ford Five Hundred is one that comes to mind.

  6. #5
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Was it really a fair test then if they ONLY included those with stability control?
    Melissa
    Peyton 10
    Camden 9
    And a new baby on the way

  7. #6
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Fair to them, anyway. Their studies seem to indicate that it is very important. Basically, it's their way of encouraging manufacturers. Just like their side tests did for curtain airbags and their rear test is doing for better seats and head restraints.

  8. #7
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
    Fair to them, anyway. Their studies seem to indicate that it is very important. Basically, it's their way of encouraging manufacturers. Just like their side tests did for curtain airbags and their rear test is doing for better seats and head restraints.
    Ok, thanks for that info!
    Melissa
    Peyton 10
    Camden 9
    And a new baby on the way

  9. #8
    Carseat Crazy
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    Do you know where I can find their most recent crash test results for all the vehicles they tested? (Or whatever information they based their winners on.) Thanks!

    -Helen

  10. #9
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granolamama View Post
    Do you know where I can find their most recent crash test results for all the vehicles they tested? (Or whatever information they based their winners on.) Thanks!

    -Helen

    You can try this website. Hopefully it will have all the info you are wanting.

    http://www.iihs.org/


    Here is another interesting website that CPSDarren posted awhile back.

    http://www.informedforlife.org/
    Melissa
    Peyton 10
    Camden 9
    And a new baby on the way

  11. #10
    Carseat Crazy beeman's Avatar
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    ABS is debatably as much trouble as good, so why is this ESC going to be any better? I come from an area where icy roads are an issue for periods over half of the year, so if I get more braking on the one side it may begin to skid, giving more traction on the side you don't want it on, sending you straight into the ditch. What happened to knowing how to drive?

  12. #11
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Sure, if you are an expert driver and have mastered threshold braking, you can probably steer through a loss of traction while braking as good as an ABS system. Though even an expert driver can't control brakes on an individual wheel like stability control can, significant experience may make it a draw.

    For the 99% of the drivers who aren't experts, stability control is apparently proving to be a big advantage. Yeah maybe you can steer through that icy corner, but you'll still be thankful that the person coming the other way had stability control to avoid your car. At least in most vehicles, all it takes is a push of a button for the 1% of expert drivers to disable the system if they think they can do better.

    I suspect its more like 1 in 10,000 drivers with enough training and experience who could perform nearly as well as ABS (when used properly) and stability control, but even if it was 1 in 10 it still seems like a major benefit. YMMV.

  13. #12
    Carseat Crazy beeman's Avatar
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    I didn't realise it has a manual override, which makes the system much more valuable. I realise that not everyone knows how to use threshold braking, but mechanical and electronic devices do fail or malfunction. As I mentioned before, I can see the vehicle applying more breaking power to one side, and then hitting a patch of ice. The side that has more braking power is more likely to lock up, causing the vehicle to turn to the opposite direction than intended, which could lead it right into another vehicle, or cause it to hit the ditch in a way that would cause a roll over. Another drawback with ABS is if you have a large amount of weight on one axel (if you are towing a trailer with a large tongue weight or heavy weight in the back) and your weight isn't distributed evenly, ABS will kick in from the light axel sensors, and reduce braking ability.

  14. #13
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    This is no different than many automotive (and other) safety devices. There's always a small risk that some unusual scenario will create a bigger hazard than if the safety feature had been omitted altogether.

    For example, advanced airbags systems will turn on the airbag to full power only when an adult is seated and buckled. A child pushing his legs on the dash could fool the sensors to think a heavier adult was seated there and activate the airbag when it should have been disabled. An adult could shift fooling the sensors to believe there was no occupant. You could argue a manual on/off switch allowing the driver to decide would be better, though most drivers are apt to just end up leaving it on or off all of the time.

    Technology isn't foolproof, but presumably there is still a net benefit if significantly more crashes and fatalities are avoided than are created by the application of the technology. That is a discussion for another type of forum pertaining to ethics, I think.

    Incidentally, ABS can often be disabled in many vehicles, too. In very loose snow, pea gravel and other loose terrain it is usually necessary to disable it, allowing you to spin the wheels back and forth to get unstuck.

  15. #14
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    I have never been a major proponent of the IIHS' rear protection rating, sometimes called a "crash test" by the media. In fact, this is a test only of a vehicle seat and is done on a test sled.

    First, severe rear impacts are only a small percentage of fatal crashes. Next, no actual vehicle impact test is performed as they do in the frontal and offset tests. So, no evaluation of the vehicle's rear crush space, intrusion or other injury measures is done at all. Furthermore, they don't always evaluate every type of vehicle seat in a given vehicle, and certainly not every type that may appear in other versions of the same vehicle that vary in interior seating choices. Also, they only do their test at a typical setting of the vehicle seat back recline and head restraint height. In that regard, it is quite likely that a safety conscious passenger could adjust these and be much safer that what the test indicates. Likewise, someone who doesn't bother at all could end up less safe if the adjustments are poor. Finally, the rear-protection score does not affect children in 5-point harness seats and high back boosters at all, since their child restraints provide their back, neck and head support.

    The IIHS rear protection score is important because whiplash-type injuries occur in the more common rear crashes at lower speeds that are not fatal ones. All else equal, vehicles with dynamic head restraints have a real safety advantage over other models. On the other hand, I would not sacrifice certain other safety features or frontal and side crash test results in favor of a model with a top rear-protection score, especially if I felt I could get a good adjustment of the vehicle seat and head restraints.

    All this said, I think that many of the models the IIHS lists as, "ALSO-RANS" are also top contenders to be among the safest vehicles available. While I do believe that the inclusion of stability control is a good thing, the IIHS awards do not even consider the NHTSA crash test ratings. These ratings are complementary to the IIHS crash test ratings as they test different types of common frontal and side impacts.

    Taking the list of "WINNERS" and "ALSO-RANS" from the IIHS news release, I have narrowed it down by taking those models that also received quadruple 5-star NHTSA crash test results. This resulting list really is an exclusive group of models that had designs good enough to get top results in all the frontal and side impact tests done in the USA. Some models (especially luxury makes) included on the IIHS list have not had all the NHTSA tests performed, yet, so those are not included, either. I feel that the following 13 models are just as safe or perhaps even safer than the 13 listed by the IIHS. Note that the first 9 models below appear on both lists.

    2007 Vehicles that received top ratings (Good, 5-star) in all IIHS and NHTSA frontal and side impact crash tests and have stability control:

    Hyundai Entourage
    Kia Sedona
    Subaru Legacy (with optional stability control)
    Honda Odyssey
    Mercedes M-Class
    Honda Pilot
    Subaru B9 Tribeca (Lacks side curtain airbags in 3rd row)
    Nissan Quest
    Toyota Camry
    Toyota Avalon
    Acura RDX
    Honda CR-V
    Subaru Forester (with optional stability control)


    Certainly, there are many models like the Volvo XC90 and Acura TL that just miss this list because they had a single "4-star" or "Acceptable" rating. Others like the Honda Civic, Ford Five Hundred and Freestyle had top scores but lacked stability control. Even these models are among the safest choices on the road. In fact, most models on the first two pages of the Informed For Life risk rating list are very safe vehicles, especially if equipped with stability control and side curtain airbags. Only a few models on the first two pages are questionable, only because they lack many test results. See http://www.informedforlife.org/demos.../2007SCORE.pdf .

  16. #15
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Although I haven't really evaluated the test results, I am surprised to see the Nissan Quest make, and not the Toyota Sienna. Any particular reasons?
    Melissa
    Peyton 10
    Camden 9
    And a new baby on the way

  17. #16
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Like the Acura TL and Volvo XC 90 I mentioned, the Toyota Sienna had a single 4-star NHTSA crash test result. Again, a very safe vehicle overall and certainly among the safest models available, but my list was exclusive to models getting top ratings in every frontal and side crash test.

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