Question Enforcing new booster laws

mamabearof3 · May 29, 2009

So I was talking with a parent of a child at my son's preschool who is a police officer. I brought up our new booster law (8 years or 4'9") which goes into effect on July 1st. He had not heard of it and his response was "Ya. They like to make laws that aren't enforcable (sp?)." What the heck??? I was the first to tell him that kids under 4'9" weren't safe in a seatbelt.

The conversation did not leave me with much hope. What gives?

~Stacy in MN

babygirlsmom1005 · May 29, 2009

mamabearof3 said:
So I was talking with a parent of a child at my son's preschool who is a police officer. I brought up our new booster law (8 years or 4'9") which goes into effect on July 1st. He had not heard of it and his response was "Ya. They like to make laws that aren't enforcable (sp?)." What the heck??? I was the first to tell him that kids under 4'9" weren't safe in a seatbelt.

The conversation did not leave me with much hope. What gives?

~Stacy in MN

If it's a written law, then it's enforcable - sounds like he will not be one to enforce it, sad there are police officers out there like that, but there are.

rochelle · May 30, 2009

babygirlsmom1005 said:
If it's a written law, then it's enforcable - sounds like he will not be one to enforce it, sad there are police officers out there like that, but there are.

Agree with that. when police stop speeding cars, they can cite the same driver if he/she breaks the new booster law.

here the local police is very busy catching DUI cases

Joyofbirth · May 30, 2009

I wonder if he's thinking because people can say they're child is 8 whether they are or not. I overheard someone saying that they were pulled over and got out of a ticket by saying their child was older. That's the only thing I can think of that he means. I was in court for a registration ticket following a woman with CPS involvement, as well as a ticket for having a 2-year-old in a seatbelt. So obviously they can enforce it.

jenbob31905 · May 30, 2009

It's nice to know that police officers aren't interested in educating the uneducated... You would think it would just give them another way to make $$$ in this failing economy!

I knew one of those parents that put an 18 month old in a backless booster. It was years ago before I had any kids and I definitely didn't know the difference to correct the parents.

christineka · May 30, 2009

I know in the state of Utah a police officer cannot pull over a vehicle for the sole charge of not wearing a seatbelt. Apparently some other offense has to be committed also. Then the fine for not wearing the seatbelt is only $45. Not sure if the car seat thing is like that as well. I have seen some posts on freecycle asking for boosters since they got pulled over for lack of one, so apparently some police are enforcing the booster law.

Maedze · May 30, 2009

christineka said:
I know in the state of Utah a police officer cannot pull over a vehicle for the sole charge of not wearing a seatbelt. Apparently some other offense has to be committed also. Then the fine for not wearing the seatbelt is only $45. Not sure if the car seat thing is like that as well. I have seen some posts on freecycle asking for boosters since they got pulled over for lack of one, so apparently some police are enforcing the booster law.

Most states with secondary laws for seatbelts (like my state) have PRIMARY laws for children under a certain age (in our case, 12).

So while a cop couldn't pull my car over for me not being in a seatbelt, if my child is unrestrained it's a whole different ballgame.

OP, I think what you heard is copspeak for, "I don't care about that law so I'm not going to bother enforcing it", unfortunately

momtoirs · May 30, 2009

Minnesota, the state the OP is in, also passed a primary seat belt law. It goes into effect June 9, I believe. And, as I understand it, the booster/child passenger law is also primary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Tina

mamabearof3 · May 31, 2009

momtoirs said:
Minnesota, the state the OP is in, also passed a primary seat belt law. It goes into effect June 9, I believe. And, as I understand it, the booster/child passenger law is also primary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Tina

I hope you are right, but I don't thinks so as I found this:
"A peace officer may not issue a citation for a violation of this section
unless the officer lawfully stopped or detained the driver of the motor vehicle for a moving violation other than a violation involving motor vehicle equipment.2.28"

PLEASE tell me I am wrong!
~Stacy in MN

Minniemouse · May 31, 2009

In PA I believe the seat belt law is now primary (I thought I heard that on the news recently..I could be wrong), the car seat law is primary for under 4yo but secondary from 4-8yo.

momtoirs · Jun 1, 2009

Stacy,

I just asked asked someone at the state. I'll let you know what she says. I specifically pointed out the wording that you found.

Tina

natysr · Jun 1, 2009

Maedze said:
OP, I think what you heard is copspeak for, "I don't care about that law so I'm not going to bother enforcing it", unfortunately

I think it was more of copspeak for "my agency has told us about this law or if it is a priority for us" or "my agency thinks this law is a PITA". Remember, this cop is a person. And, like any other person, he has his own thoughts, opinions, and ignorances.

A lot of how he feels about this falls at the feet of his agency. If, as July approaches, the agency holds an internal meeting regarding "changes in the law" and discusses the new laws, why they were put into effect, shows crash photos, statistics etc....basically educating their officers....then this cop may change his tune.

You simply cannot expect every cop to keep up with what the legislature is doing and "look forward to" every change in the law.

They are just people, doing a job and taking orders. The agency has their own agenda, and the cops are their to follow it. They really do rely on their agency to tell them what the new policies of the agency will be. There is much much much more that goes into their job besides making sure people are buckled up.

CTPDMom · Jun 1, 2009

I have a question; What does everyone think is the appropriate action for a police officer to take if they DO stop a vehicle and find that there is no booster seat (or appropriate car seat, or expired car seat, or broken car seat)?

I just had this discussion on Saturday with one of the CPST/police officers working a seat check with me. He knows what's safest, and he seems to really care about the kids but he had a point. Yes, you can stop them. And yes, you can issue a ticket to the operator of the vehicle. But then what? Most officers have no access to a ready fund to run right out and get a replacement seat, nor have them on board their cruiser. Do they just let the parent/operator go with the child restrained as they were? And if not, what should they do?

Minniemouse · Jun 1, 2009

I had a conversation w/ one of our techs that is a PA State Trooper a couple of months ago. She told me that she has a variety of seats available to her and whenever a car is pulled over that has a child (or children) that needs a seat, she is contacted and she brings the appropriate seat, installs it in HER car and the child is transported safely to either meet the parent at a store for a seat, or if closeby their home.

She did add that this only works when she's on duty, none of the other troopers at her barracks is a certified tech.

lorismurph · Jun 1, 2009

christineka said:
I know in the state of Utah a police officer cannot pull over a vehicle for the sole charge of not wearing a seatbelt. Apparently some other offense has to be committed also. Then the fine for not wearing the seatbelt is only $45. Not sure if the car seat thing is like that as well. I have seen some posts on freecycle asking for boosters since they got pulled over for lack of one, so apparently some police are enforcing the booster law.

Yes, it is only $45 but that is per person so if I have me and my family (6 total) and none of us are buckled properly, they can ticket me for each of us. I wish it was more like $145 per person though.

Maedze · Jun 1, 2009

I know a cop who's pretty stringent about child seat laws. If he pulls someone over and the offense is pretty egregious (like, a three year old in no seat at all), the driver is not allowed to leave the scene. They must contact someone with an appropriate seat, or the officer will have a child seat brought to the scene (they keep a few at the station) and the child will be transported to the nearest child services office and placed in their care.

all together ooky · Jun 1, 2009

In MN the law just passed that police may stop a car for not using a seatbelt, no other violation need be present. That makes it a PRIMARY law.

I'm pretty sure the booster/carseat law is PRIMARY too since it involves young minors.

ketchupqueen · Jun 1, 2009

Maedze said:
I know a cop who's pretty stringent about child seat laws. If he pulls someone over and the offense is pretty egregious (like, a three year old in no seat at all), the driver is not allowed to leave the scene. They must contact someone with an appropriate seat, or the officer will have a child seat brought to the scene (they keep a few at the station) and the child will be transported to the nearest child services office and placed in their care.

That is exactly what cops I have talked to about this do-- if the offense is really bad, no seat, extremely dangerous seat, etc., they will make the driver call (they'll lend a cell phone if need be) someone to bring them an appropriate seat before letting them go.

I've seen that happen at a checkpoint, too, they made one parent stay with the child while the other ran to Target and bought a new seat.

kathysr98 · Jun 1, 2009

In Louisiana the seatbelt law is primary. As far as CRs go, as long as the child is in SOMETHING, it's secondary. So, a 6mo in a lbb is secondary...if you could even keep them in it. Also, the first offense is $50 for no CR at all when required by law (6yrs/60lbs), or $25 for improper CR. It's really sad. I looked it up hopeing to encourage someone I know to turn their 9mo back RF, but the fine is such crap I didn't even mention it.

As far as LEOs go, they all seem to have things that they are interested in pursueing, and things they don't seem to care about. For example, a good friend of mine never uses the hbb from his wife's car when driving their 4yo, but is one of the best educated and die hard drug cops I've ever met. On the other hand, when I was a new driver the only CPST in our area worked a wreck I was involved in, and didn't want to write the woman who hit me a ticket for failing to yield before turning right on red.

Jennifer mom to my 7 · Jun 2, 2009

Can I be fined if my child passengers are not in car seats?

Yes. The driver is held responsible for properly restraining child passengers under the age of sixteen, and can be fined a minimum of $25 up to a maximum of $100. The driver will receive 3 points on their driving record as well.

[See Section 1229-c(5), NYS Vehicle & Traffic Law.]

See, in NY the fine is only 25-100 dollars, but it is 3 points on their license.
ANd reading the law, I can't legally have my dd in a vest since she is under 4, it has to be a seat. Hmm, wonder if my brother knows this

But a booster would qualify..sigh..since she is I think over 40 pounds.

Now, I did find out recently (and posted about it) that the city of Kingston did a crack down of the booster seat use at the elementary schools after I think a really bad accident. They camped out at the schools at drop off and pick up. Law here is under 7 needs a booster.

Question Enforcing new booster laws

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