Mazda 5, Honda Fit, Toyota Matrix?

Guest

New member
Protest what? The new regs don't kick in until 2012 and don't have to be completed until 2016. And the plan was made in agreement with the auto manufacturers, among other parties.
 
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southpawboston

New member
and wagons, and diesels, etc. Europe and Japan is total eye candy for car nuts. I don't understand America's hatred of hatches, except when attached to a SUV. An SUV is just a raised wagon!!! Yet a wagon or hatch is a pariah over here for some reason.

no freakin' kidding!!! it is a myth that we live in the land of infinite choices, at least when it comes to cars. europe and japan have all the drool-worthy turbo-diesels that get awesome mileage while kicking ass. sedans and SUVs are virtually non-existent in europe, simply because they are both fairly impractical and/or inefficient body styles. 4-door hatches and also 6-7 seater micro-minivans are big there.
 

southpawboston

New member
Protest what? The new regs don't kick in until 2012 and don't have to be completed until 2016. And the plan was made in agreement with the auto manufacturers, among other parties.

yeah, as i see it, the automakers have nothing to complain about. if they had kept their heads out of the sand they would have seen that there could be hikes in gas prices, forcing SUV sales to plummet. they should have been producing smaller, more efficient cars like they promised they would after the last auto industry bailout 30 years ago. then they wouldn't have to ask for the bailouts that got this time around and they wouldn't have to scramble to re-think auto design.
 

Guest

New member
no freakin' kidding!!! it is a myth that we live in the land of infinite choices, at least when it comes to cars. europe and japan have all the drool-worthy turbo-diesels that get awesome mileage while kicking ass. sedans and SUVs are virtually non-existent in europe, simply because they are both fairly impractical and/or inefficient body styles. 4-door hatches and also 6-7 seater micro-minivans are big there.

Seriously. Americans don't love horsepower. They love torque! If they'd just take a look at the torque numbers of a turbo-diesel, their heads would explode.

What's especially stupid is Ford and GM have those nice, efficient cars. They just refuse to bring them here. For the longest time, the Focus has been very cool, but they keep giving us the piece of crap American version and not the high tech and stylish Euro one. :mad:
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Seriously. Americans don't love horsepower. They love torque! If they'd just take a look at the torque numbers of a turbo-diesel, their heads would explode.

What's especially stupid is Ford and GM have those nice, efficient cars. They just refuse to bring them here. For the longest time, the Focus has been very cool, but they keep giving us the piece of crap American version and not the high tech and stylish Euro one. :mad:

Electric motors don't have the issue of 0 torque at 0 RPM. Why are there no dieslel electric hybrids? Best of all worlds it seems, yet no one bothers. There's gotta be a reason... Too hard to turn a diesel on and off as needed?
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Time to slap a $2 a gas tax on now. Return proceeds as large rebates to consumers who buy the most fuel efficient cars rather than SUVs or trucks or minivans. Better to do this that let the oil companies jack up prices again. Then we get nothing out of the deal.

Seriously. Freedom in regards to being able to buy a 12mpg monster truck or SUV for urban commuting is plain stupid. Make it like anything else. If you want the premium item that is costing society (take cigarettes for example), you pay for it big time.

By 2016, you should not be able to buy anything that gets less than 20mpg city and 25mpg highway IMO. If they can slap hybrids and/or diesels in bigger vehicles to get those numbers, swell. If not, price them high and tax them high. It's about time. Yeah, unfortunately it's gonna be another hit to people with 6 or more kids, but no more of a hit than all the other costs you incur for the resources consumed by a very large family.
 

Guest

New member
Electric motors don't have the issue of 0 torque at 0 RPM. Why are there no dieslel electric hybrids? Best of all worlds it seems, yet no one bothers. There's gotta be a reason... Too hard to turn a diesel on and off as needed?

We hate diesels here. I think they could get around the technical difficulties of a diesel hybrid if they had incentive.

They love diesels in Europe, but not hybrids/electrics. They're already taxed like crazy that they prolly feel the extra expense of a hybrid isn't worth it. Not when the mileage of a diesel is already crazy high and continuously getting better. Have you seen the mileage of a VW Polo? Or the Ford Puma or whatever it's called?
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
We hate diesels here. I think they could get around the technical difficulties of a diesel hybrid if they had incentive.

They love diesels in Europe, but not hybrids/electrics. They're already taxed like crazy that they prolly feel the extra expense of a hybrid isn't worth it. Not when the mileage of a diesel is already crazy high and continuously getting better. Have you seen the mileage of a VW Polo? Or the Ford Puma or whatever it's called?

Combine that with regenerative braking and turning off the engine for the first few miles and also during stoplights/gridlock and you make crazy high even better. That would cut back on the diesel fumes in urban areas, too. There may be difficulties, but we're not talking about fixing the hubble here. A billion bucks can solve a lot of difficulties IMO.
 

Guest

New member
Easily. Hydrogen sounds nice, but it completely lacks the infrastructure necessary to work.

1 billion Euros thrown at making a diesel/electric hybrid should totally do the trick. Still, I'm worrying about the US. Just get diesels up and running here. By the time they achieve a decent % of use, some R&D during that time to batteries and hybrids should totally make it a seemless transition. Just keep improving diesels and we can add the electric engines later.

Car emissions are already quite low. Money is better spent at factories and stuff. Very little needs to be spent on each plant (just thousands, really) and you could easily cut out the entire auto emissions each year. Or more.
 

southpawboston

New member
Why are there no dieslel electric hybrids? Best of all worlds it seems, yet no one bothers. There's gotta be a reason... Too hard to turn a diesel on and off as needed?

that could be... diesel does require high compression. but could it also be because diesel engines are already more expensive and add a weight burden over a conventional gas engine? the combination may push the target price and/or weight of a given car over the limit of consumer acceptance?

most people i know in europe weigh several factors into buying a diesel-- if it's a tiny car that will be used for commuting, gas engines seem to present the more long-term economical choice, since they cost less to begin with but cost slightly more for fuel, and they don't need to haul a lot of weight. for families who need larger cars or 6-passenger vans, diesel almost always becomes the more appropriate choice since the added torque becomes necessary and the fuel efficiency differential becomes larger.

i agree that having a combined crd-i turbo diesel and hybrid electric is the ultimate, especially on larger vehicles. can you imagine having 250 hp and 500lb/ft torque and getting 60mpg?
 

Guest

New member
i agree that having a combined crd-i turbo diesel and hybrid electric is the ultimate, especially on larger vehicles. can you imagine having 250 hp and 500lb/ft torque and getting 60mpg?

Heck, 35mpg would be a remarkable achievement on a lorry. And if they cut down on the particulates... :eek:
 

rochelle

New member
the Matrix headroom is low and the boot/trunk space is small. that was a deal breaker for us as our double stroller could not fit in.



no freakin' kidding!!! it is a myth that we live in the land of infinite choices, at least when it comes to cars. europe and japan have all the drool-worthy turbo-diesels that get awesome mileage while kicking ass.

vent - add to that list car seats, strollers, baby bottles, clothes .......

I know I am a spoilt brat but I grew up using Euro and Japanese products. mall shopping is so much more fun in EU and Asia.
 

littleangelfire

Well-known member
the irony that i see is that here in the "land of the free", where you can supposedly get anything you want, the mazda5 is the only car in its segment (micro-minivan). okay, there's also the kia rondo, but it's a kia. ;) i was shocked to see how many choices europeans have in this segment of vehicle. every automaker sells something along the lines of the mazda5, just not in this country (volkswagen, honda, toyota, renault, citroen all make their own versions of a tiny 6-seater).

REALLY!? I want to see the Honda version! That is the only thing that I've been hesitating over. "My son and I outgrew my 2 door Honda Civic the minute he was born, lol. And when I first found out about the Mazda5 on here, I was drooling, but keep thinking, uuuuuugh, I'm a Honda girl. I LOVE Honda power steering, and this is my 3rd Honda, 2nd Civic, I love the way they handle and I'm scared I won't like a Mazda. But seating for 6 in a car with good gas mileage? Very tempting. I would be all over it if they brought a Honda 6 seater car here.
 

littleangelfire

Well-known member
Honda Freed

You can check it out at www.honda.co.jp

that and the honda FR-V:

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/fr%2Dv/

why aren't WE getting these cars???

AAAAACK! I'm drooling here. I can NOT believe that Honda has those vehicles available somewhere else but not here. That would solve all my vehicle shopping issues. I love Honda. I'd really just as soon not drive anything else. (unless its an Acura, which is glorified Honda, lol) but they just don't have a vehicle, or so I though, that fits my needs right now. I love my Civic, but need more space. The Accord doesn't add any more seating than the Civic. I totally don't need a minivan. Ugh. off to email Honda...can I even do that?
 

southpawboston

New member
AAAAACK! I'm drooling here. I can NOT believe that Honda has those vehicles available somewhere else but not here. That would solve all my vehicle shopping issues.

and the same thing applies to toyota, nissan, audi, BMW, VW, renault, citroen, etc... they all have wonderful, practical small cars sold elsewhere in the world. why aren't they bringing them here? there's no need to redesign anything. the cars that the obama administration wants by 2016 already exist.
 

mom2juliarose

New member
that and the honda FR-V:

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/fr%2Dv/

why aren't WE getting these cars???

Ooooh I like the FR-V!

DH is from Brazil and 2 years before the Fit came to the US it was ALL OVER Brazil. We kept seeing them and thinking, "That would be a nice car to have in the US!" I think we saw them there as early as 2005?

Actually, according to here, they were in Brazil as early as 2003. Smaller cars like the Fit, Fiat Palio, Volkswagen Gol, etc. are very common there. When you see an SUV everyone's head turns--it's such a stark contrast!
 

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