Question CPSTs -What do you usually recommend to parents? Best practice or legal limits?

grumpybear · May 14, 2009

I am quite baffled by the SafeKids coordinator in our area.
I understand that we live in an area where you'd be lucky to see 3 year olds in a 5-point harness so it is quite difficult enough for the techs to be recommending best practice to these parents.
However, I know of some parents who would, no doubt, try or employ the best practice if it were recommended to them.
But why is it that our SK coordinator would recommend to my friend that she transfer her 4 year old in a high back booster when the child was still in a 5-point harness that still fit her?
Or even encourage me to turn my son around when she knows that I know that RF is safer and am willing to keep it that way 'til he reaches the limits of his seat?
Are there any legal implications that would keep techs from recommending best practice?

Maedze · May 14, 2009

No, it's usually poor education or general stubborness and arrogance. Sigh.

Fortunately for me, our SK director recommends and encourages best practice.

mish · May 14, 2009

I always encourage best practice. I am a Safe Kids coordinator, and I encourage my techs to encourage best practice. They don't always, but I try. I try to feel out a parent before I just go for the RF to the limits of the seat. I talk to them about how much safer it is to RF and encourage them to keep going after the baby turns 1 and is 20 pounds. I tell them that it is ideal to go to the limits of the seat but don't push really hard. Sometimes they are receptive and I push harder. I usually get people freaking out on me.

As far as keeping them in a harness, I always encourage it. Most of the time they are already in a booster and the parents have gotten rid of their seat. They don't want to go buy a new one.

grumpybear · May 14, 2009

mish said:
Sometimes they are receptive and I push harder. I usually get people freaking out on me.

really? Like how? Why do they get upset?

skaterbabs · May 14, 2009

Not only do I preach Best Practice, unless the parent asks, I don't even tell them the law and if they do ask, I give them my "legal vs safe" speech.

jess71903 · May 14, 2009

I am going through my class right now and they are stressing that you teach best practice. One said that she doesn't even mention the law because she doesn't want them to know the minimum is even an option if they don't know it already. The curriculum seems to teach this very hard- you teach best practice and then the parent has to make the hard decisions about whether or not to follow that.

mish · May 14, 2009

grumpybear said:
really? Like how? Why do they get upset?

Well, I live around a lot of grouchy people apparently, because they get mad and tell me I'm crazy. They tell me I'm ridiculous and other fun stuff. Or they just start rolling their eyes at me.

I don't know why they get upset. I think they think I am questioning their parental decisions or ability or something. I am really friendly and smile and stuff, so I don't know.

grumpybear · May 14, 2009

LOL. Talk about shooting the messenger.

I guess my next question is, what is it that keeps states from enforcing best practice and setting them as legal limits?
Is it a matter of economics/funding? If they legislate for ERF and harnessing, does that mean that they have to provide these HWH seats for those who cannot afford it and this may be what is keeping them from legislating for stricter car seat laws?

Gypsy · May 14, 2009

I don't mention the law unless they are insisting on not putting their 5YO in a booster (which hasn't even happened), definitely best practice all the way!

I've *personally* only had ONE child under 2 leave a seat check forward facing : ) and the only reason was that the seat he came in was forward facing only and the parents didn't want to buy a convertible.

Gypsy · May 14, 2009

grumpybear said:
LOL. Talk about shooting the messenger.

I guess my next question is, what is it that keeps states from enforcing best practice and setting them as legal limits?
Is it a matter of economics/funding? If they legislate for ERF and harnessing, does that mean that they have to provide these HWH seats for those who cannot afford it and this may be what is keeping them from legislating for stricter car seat laws?

Here in Idaho, the reason we haven't passed a better booster law is because one of the members of the state senate is VERY short and always pulls that card saying "but I'm not even 4' 9", this is such a ridiculous requirement", plus there are a lot of farms here and some of the members of the senate and house don't like making it illegal to ride in the bed of a pick-up, or to not be allowed to hold small children/babies on laps to cram a lot of people in their truck for a long drive to save gas. Basically it's a lot of ignorance/failure to allow themselves to be educated.

Maedze · May 14, 2009

grumpybear said:
LOL. Talk about shooting the messenger.

I guess my next question is, what is it that keeps states from enforcing best practice and setting them as legal limits?
Is it a matter of economics/funding? If they legislate for ERF and harnessing, does that mean that they have to provide these HWH seats for those who cannot afford it and this may be what is keeping them from legislating for stricter car seat laws?

No, it's not a matter of funding. It's a matter, again, of stubborness and arrogance. Almost anytime a booster law with teeth is introduced, it's watered down to satisfy lawmakers who don't want to tick off their constituents. It took us YEARS to get a booster law here. A few years ago it didn't pass because lawmakers didn't want to put an 'undue financial burden' on parents by forcing them to use child seats after the fifth birthday

(you know, because a then 14-dollar Cosco Ambassador is such an undue financial burden.)

We wanted an 8 AND 4'9" bill (actually many of us wanted a 12 and 4'9 bill). We got an 8 OR 4'9" bill. Hey, it's better than the 5 year rule it previously was!

The only way we could get a consistently best practice across the board law in most states would be to have the federal government withhold highway funding, and even then, some states would rather dig in their heels and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars rather than let Big Gubmint tell them what to do

LuciaBella · May 14, 2009

I also preach best practice. Keep those kids Rf and harnessed!

I totally know how you feel though, because I've been to a car seat check up before I became a CPST and they told me to turn Lucia around. She was happily rear facing and I turned her back around the second we got home.

Maedze · May 14, 2009

At checks, as previously noticed, you NEED to get a feel for parents. Some are CLEARLY not interested in best practice, just are doing what they need to do to be within the letter of the law. If you try to educate them about best practice, you will be seen as deliberately offending them and then they'll ignore everything you have to say, so my schpiel then is

"This seat is a convertible which means it faces forward and backward. The baby must be backward until he is at least 1 year old AND 22 pounds AND 34 inches (this is the minimum listed on our Scenera, and I'll be happy if they remember even one of those numbers). After that he should be turned forward facing until he is either even with the top slots or he is 40 pounds, whichever comes first. After that, he will need another, bigger seat until he is at least 8 years old! Please come back every time you do something different like move the seat from back facing to front facing or buy a new seat."

Pixels · May 14, 2009

I always at least mention best practice. How hard I push depends on the reaction I'm getting from the parent. If they're less than thrilled about RFing their 10 month old 18 pound baby because they're "close enough," I mention it so that maybe they'll actually keep their kid RFing till 1 and 20. I do talk about spinal development, internal decapitation, and how the shell of the carseat (RFing) will support the head/neck. With less-thrilled parents, I mention 2 and 30 as the goal. If the parent is more interested in following best practice, I encourage to the full limits of the seat (and teach what those limits are, of course).

There are no adverse legal implications (AFAIK) to advocating best practices. They are, after all, BEST practices. I can think of legal implications to advocating bare minimums, if a child were to be subsequently injured.

Pixels · May 14, 2009

Maedze said:
"This seat is a convertible which means it faces forward and backward. The baby must be backward until he is at least 1 year old AND 22 pounds AND 34 inches (this is the minimum listed on our Scenera, and I'll be happy if they remember even one of those numbers).

When I say that ^ I like to show them the stickers on the seat where it says those numbers. Likely they won't remember the numbers you tell them, but maybe, just maybe, they'll remember that there were stickers on the seat and actually look at them. I do the same thing when I show them the proper belt path. "See, this sticker here says this is the belt path for RFing."

Gypsy · May 14, 2009

I always talk about the next step up.

If I get a pregnant mom, I do the full infant seat check thing, then I say "and when this is outgrown, you'll want to look for a convertible carseat with high top harness slots and a high rear facing limit, usually 33-35 pounds, so you can keep your baby rear facing until 3-4 years which we now know is the safest way for not only infants, but toddlers and preschoolers to travel too."

Or if they come in with, say, a 34 pound 2 year old forward facing in a Chase, I say "after this is outgrown, you'll want to look for a bigger 5 point harnessed carseat so that your child can stay in a harness until at least 5-6 years when they are old enough and mature enough to start taking some responsibility for their own safety, boosters aren't for toddlers or preschoolers!".

azgirl71 · May 14, 2009

Best practice 110%!

NannyMom · May 14, 2009

I always teach best practice. Our only state law for carseats says kids need to be in a seat (harness or booster) until 8yrs/65LBS/4'9. No laws on RF/FF or harness/booster.

How long should my child RF? Until 30/33/35/40 (depending on the seat) and 1 inch above head. They can't find a law to prove me "wrong"

My problem is.... How long does my child need a booster? If I answer best practice, they can find the law on their own and "prove me wrong". So my response is always "leagally, or safely?". If they want the legal answer, I give it to them, but also thrown in the best practice info too

ketchupqueen · May 14, 2009

I only teach best practice. I give that information to the parent. If any other decision is made, I of course don't condemn the parent for it or anything, but I do consider it a "tough choice" that the parent has made, and document it as such.

joolsplus3 · May 15, 2009

I usually flurry it all together... some combination of 'to the limits of the seat, at least age 1, AAP had an article that said it's 5 times safer to age 2...' and then finish them off with, 'just try to make it to 15 months or so' (or maybe if they are really receptive I'll get deeper into RF being so much better...).
It's a little easier now that all seats are going to 35 pounds (or 40! Yay, Graco...now just kill that ComfortSport and you'll be golden!), so that plants a seed in their head that maybe they can go longer, I think. (and is less of a mouthful than trying to remember to say the range of RF weights seats all had last year).

Question CPSTs -What do you usually recommend to parents? Best practice or legal limits?

New member

New member

New member

New member

Well-known member

Ambassador

New member

New member

Senior Community Member

Senior Community Member

New member

LuciaBella

Guest

New member

New member

New member

Senior Community Member

CPST Instructor

Well-known member

CPST and ketchup snob

Admin - CPS Technician

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Sponsors

Forum statistics