Youtube Video (Importance of a 5-pt Harness) Thread

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LuvBug

New member
yeah it makes me want to put a rush on getting a regent for my mom's car. Right now DS is in a laptop. But the regent is so pricey right now, when we got our husky it was only 169 plus shipping. Now it is about 100$ more.

It kinda makes me want to put the latch on with the seatbelt too, I know thats a no no but if the seatbelt failed completely at least he wouldnt be like a ball on a string in the back seat. Makes me not want to drive anymore. :/
 
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ajweeks

New member
That is so sad. A seat belt failing is bad for any type of car seat or even an adult or older child in no seat. Is this type of thing common? What would happen to a regent installed with a seat belt and the seat belt failed?
 

LuvBug

New member
i figure depending where the seatbelt failed it would either sling to the side like a door opening it possibly fly around only connected to the tether. It is also possible that it fail and the regent not go anywhere since the regent uses the long belt path.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Ugh. I did ok until the end there.

I'm so glad Piper is so freaking tiny that she could probably take her driver's test in 12 years in a Regent.

Wendy
 

cadensmommy

Senior Community Member
wow that was really good but so sad! I hope people learn from this I fowarded it to everyone I know hoping it will get to someone but usually people just ignore me :(

Clarissa
 

RubysGirl

New member
Yeah, I imediately wondered if they had the gen 3 belts too.

It was a buick, is buick part of dodge/chrysler?
 

LuvBug

New member
Im really uncomfortable with this knowledge now. Im going to need to confiscate my mom's vehicle and take it to the dealer to have the belts looked at. Might as well have mine looked at too. But is there really a way to tell if it will fail just by looking??
 

abacus2

Well-known member
I don't think Buick is part of the Gen 3 buckle problem; it affects Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, Plymouth, and Eagle.
 

ajweeks

New member
But in this case, even if the booster was attached to the car via latch or tether, the only thing holding the child in the booster is the seat belt and that is what failed. I see the only difference being that the booster would have stayed in the seat, but the child would have still been ejected.

The solution to stopping this type of tragedy from reoccuring is better seat belts and crash testing. Any person in a roll over with a selt belt failure is in danger of being ejected and killed. And all kids will be moved to boosters and seat belts at some point. Also, this tragedy does show that a booster is safe as long as the child fits and the seat belt works--this little boy's older sister was fine.
 

LuvBug

New member
Morgan the only whole in that issue is that even if the booster is tightly installed with latch and a tether it is still only the seatbelt holding the child into the booster. So even if her son has been in a fastened booster and the seatbelt failed he still would have been thrown because he still would have had nothing holding him back.
That is why you would want a harness seat, so that if the belt failed they would still be held back by the internal harness of the seat.
 

Morganthe

New member
But in this case, even if the booster was attached to the car via latch or tether, the only thing holding the child in the booster is the seat belt and that is what failed. I see the only difference being that the booster would have stayed in the seat, but the child would have still been ejected.

The solution to stopping this type of tragedy from reoccuring is better seat belts and crash testing. Any person in a roll over with a selt belt failure is in danger of being ejected and killed. And all kids will be moved to boosters and seat belts at some point. Also, this tragedy does show that a booster is safe as long as the child fits and the seat belt works--this little boy's older sister was fine.


Oooh boy, the time stamps are all mixed up on here! Confusing :p

Luv Bug-- I somewhat agree with the parent saying that a harness would have prevented the ejection from a car seat. There's a possibility the seat being suddenly released by the loose buckle aided to push the child out of the car. A tether could have balanced the sudden stress, the seatbelt might have held together. Or if the seat had remained in place and not become canonlike projectile, that child would have sustained injuries, but could have also remained in the vehicle. It was the ejection that was fatal. Being loose in the car could still have saved his life. We just cannot say from the limited amount of information we were provided with via the video.

However, in this case, the child WAS using an approved booster seat. The child fit it properly and it was being used correctly just like thousands of other parents are doing. So unless we start advocating that booster seats have a better backup system and are provided with harnesses, then seat belts must have better testing and guarantee that they will remain secure, just like AJ says above.

I just personally believe that removing one source of projectile force, such as a loose booster, would help considerably for the average parent who either doesn't have the money or the space for a large Regent and must trust in a 3pt booster system. Making it an attached part of the car and relieving some of the force on the seatbelt, imo, is necessary. Maybe if had been only the child's weight secured by the seatbelt, and not the booster seat, the belt connection would have held. Not enough total weight to snap it open or that the booster didn't somehow press open the buckle.

jmho and it could always be incorrect. I'm no physics major. :cool:
 
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LuvBug

New member
However, in this case, the child WAS using an approved booster seat. The child fit it properly and it was being used correctly just like thousands of other parents are doing. So unless we start advocating that booster seats have a better backup system and are provided with harnesses, then seat belts must have better testing and guarantee that they will remain secure, just like AJ says above.

Yes the time stamps are all crazy.
I agree that seatbelts need more testing and they are actually working on 4point and 5point seatbelts for cars, so that will help some. But a booster with an internal harness is just a harnessed booster and therefor a carseat and no longer just a booster.

There are other products out there besides just the regent as well. There is the kid-y harness system. This system would take a good bit of force of the seatbelt and more than likely lessen the chance of the belt detatching from the car. It can be used with a high back booster, no back, or alone but must be used with the ones tested by the company. Now this system isnt a harnessed booster, it is a harness you can use with a booster, so it is not a carseat. Not many people know about this system as an option and it is only suggested for people with booster age children, so it would actually be a good alternative for parents with children in boosters.
 

Lea_Ontario

Well-known member
What a sad video :(

I rather envy you guys in the US - I so DREAD the day I have to move Owen into a booster seat - he's only 7 lbs away from that now.
 

lv2bmome

New member
Can anyone tell me more about the gen 3 buckles on Dodge vans? We have a 2005 Grand Caravan and I am wondering if ours has these buckles or not? Anyone know? Thanks!
 

Morganthe

New member
Such a sad video. I am so sorry for that child's death. :(

I have to be honest though and I hope I say this without mushing it up. The child died because his car's seatbelt failed to keep him and his booster in place. If the seatbelt clasp had worked properly, nothing fatal would have happened and the parents would likely still be happily using booster seats.
IMHO, the battle should be to make booster seats more secure and safer in vehicles. (I don't believe the issue should have been murked up advising another class of car seat types (harnessed) in a 'what-if' scenario) This would have happened to an older child in a booster too. I truly believe that Booster seats need to be attached with something more than a single point at the seatbelt!

Ever since I began researching the next seat for my daughter last winter, I've looked at the boosters as being stupidly reliant on a single point of securement at the seat belt buckle. That's a lot of faith and trust in a buckle that's designed to open and shut by pressing a button. If there was a lockover panel covering the clasp and preventing access to the button, it would be very helpful, imo.

There's a lot of emphasis on car seat testing on this site. There's another side of the issue. What about testing the various cars' buckle, seatbelt designs, and framework of seating arrangements to safely contain a child seat in the vehicle? This isn't something that is originally thought of by most engineers. Adding a booster seat changes the physics of motion dynamics by adding a framed seat + a child on the seating platform. This Gen 3 seatbelt is a tragic example of design failure. I could see where a regular harnessed or infant seat base could also not work and have deadly outcomes, but at least there's a higher chance of remaining within that vehicle. Having more than a single point of securement helps them. Why should this not be so for our booster seats?

It's the primary reason I purchased the Recaro Start... It was the only booster at the time (and I think it still is) with a top tether hookup! I was concerned with the head/shoulder area of the car seat slamming down against my daughter and the seatbelt in an accident. I was also worried about the single point seatbelt failure and wanted to provide something 'extra' to keep that seat in place. I don't know if these is are unrealistic concerns, but imo, it was something that could possibly occur during a collision. I also wanted to make certain that the carseat would not go anywhere if it was not occupied.

Eventually, our children will leave 5pt harnesses behind at some point in their lives. Boosters are the next step. I'd be thrilled if I had a 4pt option as an adult (no crotch strap & only over the hips & shoulders), but it's not going to happen. We can't get adults to wear 3pt. Why would they even consider a 4pt over the shoulder? Booster seats NEED to become safer by attaching to the car like every other car seat style out there. We have everyone else fastened securely to the vehicles, why are boosters an exception to the rule? I was thrilled to see the backless booster in Canada with a Latch hookup -- Now that's what I"m talking about!

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. :)
tchuss
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
Can anyone tell me more about the gen 3 buckles on Dodge vans? We have a 2005 Grand Caravan and I am wondering if ours has these buckles or not? Anyone know? Thanks!

I don't know about '05 models specifically, but this site explains Gen 3 buckles and shows photos of what they look like: http://www.unsafebelts.com/

The same site also lists vehicles known to have Gen 3 belts at: http://www.unsafebelts.com/known.cfm,
but it looks like the list may not have been updated to reflect models newer than 2003.
 

lovinwaves

New member
Also, the van Kyle Miller was riding in was a '98 Sienna according to this article:

http://www.theeagle.com/region/localregional/053005fatal.php

Not sure about what type of seatbelts were in the Sienna but FWIW, it's not listed as a model with Gen 3 belts on the www.unsafebelts.com web page.

Ok, now I am confused. If the Toyota was not part of the GEN3 seatbelts, then what was the problem with the seatbelt?

Also, the article states that either the seatbelt was NOT buckled or the children had REMOVED the seatbelt???:confused:

So did the seatbelt not fail? Or are they just not sure?
 
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