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  1. #81
    Moderator - CPS Technician BookMama's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by lenats31 View Post
    SO it could very well be the footprop that caused the denial.

    Lena
    I'd say that's unlikely, as there was a U.S. infant seat a few years back that had a foot prop, and it was approved according to the FMVSS regulations. (It was the Baby Safe by Britax.)
    Andrea, CPST, Tech proxy, special Needs trained
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    Plus a plethora of "spare" seats for everyone.

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  3. #82
    Carseat Crazy twinsmom's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by lenats31 View Post
    The parents of The little boy Joel who broke his neck in a frontal crash at city speed at 15 months old and 33 lbs was given permission by NHTSA to legally import and use this seat for Joel. They can be imported legally if you have a child with disabillites that call for RFing past 35 lbs. without regard to a car comp. list.
    This is why I'm skeptical about the whole "Swedish seats are incompatible with US cars" argument. If the govt will allow the seats under certain medical conditions, do they really have the fear that the seat is unsafe or incompatible with US cars, or is it more of a political issue.


    Jack and Katie, 9 years old!
    Riding in Montereys and Maxi Cosi Rodi XRs

  4. #83
    Senior Community Member Evolily's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by twinsmom View Post
    This is why I'm skeptical about the whole "Swedish seats are incompatible with US cars" argument. If the govt will allow the seats under certain medical conditions, do they really have the fear that the seat is unsafe or incompatible with US cars, or is it more of a political issue.
    When a child gets a waver basically it says the child cannot be safely restrained in any seat on the market. Which allows parents to choose to import seats- but that doesn't mean they are safe in those seats. I believe (although I'm not certain) that the waver also allows the child to be completely unrestrained in the vehicle.
    Formerly known as CelticLabyrinth
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  5. #84
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by BookMama View Post
    I'd say that's unlikely, as there was a U.S. infant seat a few years back that had a foot prop, and it was approved according to the FMVSS regulations. (It was the Baby Safe by Britax.)
    Is it possible that the BabySafe passed FMVSS without the foot, but Britax required it anyway?
    Ulrike, mom to:
    Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)


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  6. #85
    Carseat Crazy Stresch's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    The foot prop on the BabySafe was optional for use.
    Sanna-5 years, 33 pounds, Nautilus
    Karl-2 years, 25 pounds, RF in a Roundabout or Marathon

  7. #86
    CPS Technician Pixels's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by lenats31 View Post
    The MT does not use LATCH or Isofix. It is a belt installed seat that installs pretty much the same way that you would install a Marathon RF with LATCH. seatbelt route is the same (through the front of the seat)
    Not having LATCH is sufficient to fail FMVSS testing. It's required on harnessed American seats.

    Quote Originally Posted by UlrikeDG View Post
    Is it possible that the BabySafe passed FMVSS without the foot, but Britax required it anyway?
    Yes, this.
    Melissa, CPST and Mom to three

  8. #87
    Moderator - CPS Technician BookMama's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by UlrikeDG View Post
    Is it possible that the BabySafe passed FMVSS without the foot, but Britax required it anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stresch View Post
    The foot prop on the BabySafe was optional for use.
    Good points!
    Andrea, CPST, Tech proxy, special Needs trained
    DS 4/01 - Seatbelt * DD1 11/05 - Oobr, PWSGL, Performance Booster
    DD2 10/09 - GN SS/Argos
    Plus a plethora of "spare" seats for everyone.

  9. #88
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by twinsmom View Post
    This is why I'm skeptical about the whole "Swedish seats are incompatible with US cars" argument. If the govt will allow the seats under certain medical conditions, do they really have the fear that the seat is unsafe or incompatible with US cars, or is it more of a political issue.
    It's no different with certain medications or medical treatments. If someone has no other alternative, they may be able to get an exemption to have a procedure or medication that has not been tested or approved by the FDA. That doesn't mean it is safe or unsafe, it just means they are giving special permission in a case where they may have no other suitable option.

    It is political to some extent. Of course the government could basically say that anyone can import any child seat not tested or approved to our standards. Then why not allow domestic models to be sold without passing certification requirements too. Regulations and standards do serve a very important purpose. In some cases they do need an update. In other cases, companies simply choose not to have a model certified because they know it won't pass or feel it would be too expensive based on the projected sales. That's also not the fault of the government.

  10. #89
    Carseat Crazy twinsmom's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
    It is political to some extent. Of course the government could basically say that anyone can import any child seat not tested or approved to our standards. Then why not allow domestic models to be sold without passing certification requirements too. Regulations and standards do serve a very important purpose.
    Yes, but I think there is a difference between a seat not passing any standards vs. passing another reputable standard. It would be nice if there was some reciprocity between the US and EU standards.

    I stand corrected about the medical waiver.


    Jack and Katie, 9 years old!
    Riding in Montereys and Maxi Cosi Rodi XRs

  11. #90
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    Re: Volvo introduces ERF car seats for their vehicles , up to 6 yrs old

    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Jo View Post
    Yeah... because Volvo is the only one who's ever stated that.
    yeah... but volvo has known this longer than this internet forum, and has considerably more clout behind what they say.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  12. #91
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: Volvo introduces ERF car seats for their vehicles , up to 6 yrs old

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    yeah... but volvo has known this longer than this internet forum, and has considerably more clout behind what they say.
    I don't think this forum invented the fact that necks and spines take longer to develop and younger children should rearface because of it. Neither did Volvo. They should not be credited with knowing the truths of physiology, rather it would be more credible to say something like 'medical experts' are behind it all, no?
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  13. #92
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    Re: Volvo introduces ERF car seats for their vehicles , up to 6 yrs old

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    I don't think this forum invented the fact that necks and spines take longer to develop and younger children should rearface because of it. Neither did Volvo. They should not be credited with knowing the truths of physiology, rather it would be more credible to say something like 'medical experts' are behind it all, no?
    well, medical experts may know mor about developmental physiology, but regarding the safety relationship between RF and children's musculo-skeletal development, i'd actually say volvo is more qualified to comment than medical experts, as they are the ones that did all that research before anyone else.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  14. #93
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Volvo introduces ERF car seats for their vehicles , up to 6 yrs old

    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Jo View Post
    What about the new AAP recommendations??
    It didn't turn out to be new AAP recommendations. It was just a press release about a study we already knew about that was (understandably) miss interpreted an official policy change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Jo View Post
    (Bolding mine.) Yeah... because Volvo is the only one who's ever stated that.
    The article doesn't imply that Volvo is the only one or even that Volvo is the most preeminent expert on child safety. The author is merely citing her source for this article, which was Volvo. If I interviewed Julie for something I was writing, I might say, "Some parents prefer for their children to ride in the trunk, but Joolsplus3 says that's not the safest place for kids." Sure, there may be dozens of other "more credible" sources for the same information, but I got it from Jools, so that's who gets the credit in my article.
    Ulrike, mom to:
    Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)


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  15. #94
    Carseat Crazy
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    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/27/followup-nhtsa-to-allow-vehicle-specific-child-seats-after-all?

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    Model: Mathias. Car seat: Britax Multi-Tech

  16. #95
    CPS Technician Pixels's Avatar
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    Re: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/27/followup-nhtsa-to-allow-vehicle-specific-child-seats-after-all?

    The article is implying something that isn't true. NHTSA hasn't said anything that would lead a careful reader (who had read the entire thing of what NHTSA said) to believe that they will allow vehicle-specific carseats. What they said is that they basically want to expand on their current ease-of-use rating system, and have the vehicle manufacturers recommend some seats (at various price points) that work well in their vehicles. They're talking about using the already-available, universal carseats to do this. They didn't say anything about changing the standards to allow vehicle-specific mounting systems.
    Melissa, CPST and Mom to three

  17. #96
    Forum Ambassador TechnoGranola's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
    Cars used in Sweden are virtually the same as cars used in US, Canada, Germany, Australia etc. In reality, it's very rare to have a Swedish seat not fit in a vehicle. Exceptions might be if trying to install a large seat in a very tiny car or installing a seat in the middle rear where the car has a large "tunnel" (foot prop might not work properly). It's simply very rare for a Swedish seat not to fit into a car of any nationality.
    Someone said earlier that the reason certain Swedish seats could never be approved here is because they could only be installed with the seat belt and not with LATCH. And NHTSA requires a seat to install with both. So, it doesn't seem like a fitment issue per say, but rather that the seats (some? all? at least the Volvo ones in question) don't offer LATCH as an additional install method as per the NHTSA.

  18. #97
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    I'm pretty sure the previous generation of Volvo seats could be installed with LATCh/ISOFIX only. They had an ISOFIX base which was installed first, then the seat (infant or convertible) was secured to that. As far as I could tell, there was no seatbelt installation option. The new generation isn't due for release for a few more months. We'll have to wait and see how they are installed.
    Ulrike, mom to:
    Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)


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  19. #98
    Forum Ambassador TechnoGranola's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Quote Originally Posted by UlrikeDG View Post
    I'm pretty sure the previous generation of Volvo seats could be installed with LATCh/ISOFIX only. They had an ISOFIX base which was installed first, then the seat (infant or convertible) was secured to that. As far as I could tell, there was no seatbelt installation option. The new generation isn't due for release for a few more months. We'll have to wait and see how they are installed.
    Ah okay. I was thinking of the MultiTech when I posted that as members here have said the MultiTech can only be installed with seat belt.

    I guess if something can only be installed with LATCH/ISOFIX, then it also wouldn't meet NHTSA criteria since it needs to be able to be installed with the seat belt as well, correct?

  20. #99
    CPS Technician Pixels's Avatar
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    Right.
    Melissa, CPST and Mom to three

  21. #100
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    Re: Fed. Law keeps Volvo from offering safer child seats

    And you aren't going to see seats that RF beyond 40 lbs in the US until NHTSA certifies LATCH beyond 40 lbs! Look at the new Graco MyWay65... It has a 40 lb RF weight limit. Why that number? Because that is the max weight allowed by LATCH, and in order to pass FMVSS 213 standards the seat has to be usable in all installation methods per the NHTSA memo. LATCH is the real troublemaker here, and always has been. As a standard it totally sucks. There has been poor implementation and it has not had any substantiative revision since it was introduced. It needs to be certified to 65 lbs soon!
    Ian James - 3.5 Years
    FF Learning Curve Truefit and FF Britax RA

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