Cheryl Kim, of safey belt safe USA, opinion on graco knees issue.....

emandbri

Well-known member
I posted about the knee issue in the my ride 65 manual on the car seat list serve and got a response from Cheryl Kim, she gave me permission to post her response.

"The 2007 instructions for Comfort Sport (the version on the 2009 CD by SBS
USA) and the 2006 instructions on the Graco Web site have the same wording:

"However, some children approaching 30 lbs. (13.6 kg) may be too tall to fit
comfortably rear-facing. When child can no longer comfortably fit and knees
remain bent, child should use car seat forward-facing only if child is over
20 lbs. (9 kg) and can sit upright unassisted. *

* The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that children should be at
least one year of age before being positioned forward facing."

I read this as a warning not to turn the child to face forward until the
child is at least 20 lbs. AND one year AND can sit unassisted--even if the
child is uncomfortable because his legs are bent. I do not believe this was
intended to be understood as "knees cannot be bent."

Cheryl Kim

SafetyBeltSafe U.S.A."

Her response has been forward not only to the listserve but also to reps at graco.

I am confident that they will say it is perfectly fine to use the seat with a child rear-facing child with bent knees.
 
ADS

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
That is the way I interpreted it, as well.

Watch as chaos ensues among Graco CS reps, though.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I still think the point is in the manual only because they test with the lower legs detached from the knee and then attached to the upper legs when testing with the 3yr old dummy. It's probably just based on that and them not "knowing" what will happen to a child with long legs. CYA at it's finest.

And really, if it's a case of CYA, I don't see them clarifying anything different than what's in the manual. They have to test with the legs like that, and if that's the reason why they're saying it, then that's not going to change. :eek: (Not saying it's right, just that we should be prepared that they may not be willing to change the manual and will tell parents to follow the manual... And that just because they say that, doesn't mean it's dangerous for a kid with long legs. It's simply a case of them having not tested with long legs crossed or propped on the seat back.)
 

Mommy0608

New member
The way I interpret her statement is that kids can not FF before 1yr/20lbs even if legs are bent, BUT if they ARE 1yr/20lbs, they SHOULD be turned FF if their legs are uncomfortably bent... to the average parent, any bending of the legs is deemed uncomfortable, at least it is with the average parents I've come into contact with. The statement, IMO, encourages turning kids FF right at the bare minimum if their legs are bent, and many kids will have bent legs at that age.

I really wish they'd reword it, but I am not holding my breath for that.

For the record, I'm very happy about the new seat; it's definitely a step in the right direction. Hopefully more manufacturers will follow Graco's lead.
 

brightredmtn

Well-known member
The way I interpret her statement is that kids can not FF before 1yr/20lbs even if legs are bent, BUT if they ARE 1yr/20lbs, they SHOULD be turned FF if their legs are uncomfortably bent... to the average parent, any bending of the legs is deemed uncomfortable, at least it is with the average parents I've come into contact with. The statement, IMO, encourages turning kids FF right at the bare minimum if their legs are bent, and many kids will have bent legs at that age.

I think we're giving the average parent way more credit than they deserve. The average parent is going to see on the big sticker when the buy the seat, "wow 40lb rear facing weight limit!" They don't read the manual that far in depth to know where the chest clip needs to be, how much to tighten the harness, heck how to even install by LATCH. They certainly aren't going to get to the part about bent knees. If people did read the manual that well we wouldn't have a 90% misuse rate.
 

Mommy0608

New member
I think we're giving the average parent way more credit than they deserve. The average parent is going to see on the big sticker when the buy the seat, "wow 40lb rear facing weight limit!" They don't read the manual that far in depth to know where the chest clip needs to be, how much to tighten the harness, heck how to even install by LATCH. They certainly aren't going to get to the part about bent knees. If people did read the manual that well we wouldn't have a 90% misuse rate.

I do agree with you, however, for those that DO see this, they may be inclined to turn their child early because they want to follow the manufacturer's recommendation. I know this is probably a rarity, but I'm sure it has and will happen sometimes. As techs, we always stress following the manual. What do we say to the parent who points to this statement in their manual when explaining their reason for turning their 22lb 13 month old? It's hard to say "Always follow your manual" and then turn around and say, "Oh no it's okay to continue rear-facing." Of course, WE know it's okay, but this could be confusing to a manual-following parent. I suppose the best we can do is present the information on why ERF is so important, and let the parent make the decision. I just sincerely hope this statement doesn't deter a parent from keeping their child RF to the limits. :(
 

skylinphoto

New member
I of course know it's fine to RF even with bent legs.
BUT, if I didn't know that, I would read the manual and WANT to do the right thing by keeping my kid rfing to the limits..but I would constantly be worried about "how bent is ' uncomfotably bent' to graco? ...should I turn her now? ...is this okay? ...etc"
 

fyrfightermomma

New member
And we have to remember. What do they mean by that???? Uncomfortable to the child? Or uncomfortable to look at by the parent?

If they could clarify that uncomfortable by the child is what they meant, it'd probably be ok. My child is 2 and I don't think could ever articulate she was uncomfortable and we all know that 90% of kiddos that age aren't uncomfortable.

Heck, my tall 4 year old didn't complain until about 2 months ago!

So if we could clarify that, that'd be great. When the child clearly starts to complain about bent legs (which no kid who's never had that suggestion given to them should complain before age 3 atleast) then you can turn them provided they are 20/1 yr
 

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Forum statistics

Threads
219,655
Messages
2,196,895
Members
13,530
Latest member
onehitko860

You must read your carseat and vehicle owner’s manual and understand any relevant state laws. These are the rules you must follow to restrain your children safely. All opinions at Car-Seat.Org are those of the individual author for informational purposes only, and do not necessarily reflect any policy or position of Carseat Media LLC. Car-Seat.Org makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician. Before posting or using our website you must read and agree to our TERMS.

Graco is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Britax is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Nuna Baby is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org!

Please  Support Car-Seat.Org  with your purchases of infant, convertible, combination and boosters seats from our premier sponsors above.
Shop travel systems, strollers and baby gear from Britax, Chicco, Clek, Combi, Evenflo, First Years, Graco, Maxi-Cosi, Nuna, Safety 1st, Diono & more! ©2001-2022 Carseat Media LLC

Top