Hayley's first kindergarten field trip

scatterbunny · Oct 19, 2006

Hayley's kindergarten class, along with the other PM class, went to the pumpkin patch today. I volunteered to be a parent helper. I asked her teacher weeks ago how transportation was going to be arranged and was told they use big busses.

I'm okay with that because Hayley is 4 feet tall and 50 pounds now, knows how to stay seated properly and rides a big bus to and from school every day.

When it was time to load everyone on the busses it became obvious that there wasn't enough room on the one big bus that was there, and they only had a short bus for the rest of us. So my group, six kids plus three adults, were asked to ride the short bus. Which meant lapbelts for everyone, except two kids who were very obviously below 40 pounds used the built-in harnesses on the bus.

I was so unhappy. I didn't want to throw a fit in front of everyone, we were already running behind schedule. Still, I was sick to my stomach the entire ride to and from the pumpkin patch, about 15 miles out of town on a rural, 55mph highway.

Next Monday when I volunteer again I'm telling the teacher how I feel about lapbelts and their lack of safety, and telling her that if a short bus will be used again in the future I will drive Hayley myself.

Other than that, the field trip went well. All six kids in my group were great. It was a bit chilly and raining slightly, but we were all in rubber boots or old shoes, warm clothes, and the pumpkin patch provides apple cider and apples. It was fun. I got some cute pictures but I'm not sure if I can upload them at the library. I'll try to do that soon.

mominabigtruck · Oct 19, 2006

I saw in your post it says you have your 4 yo in a fisher price futura. I was just wondering what you thought of it. I'm looking at a used one on ebay for my mom for her van because she put my 4 yo in a backless booster so I need to get something for him quick. Any thoughts would be great!!

scatterbunny · Oct 19, 2006

mominabigtruck said:
I saw in your post it says you have your 4 yo in a fisher price futura. I was just wondering what you thought of it. I'm looking at a used one on ebay for my mom for her van because she put my 4 yo in a backless booster so I need to get something for him quick. Any thoughts would be great!!

First of all let me say, be careful buying on Ebay. You won't know how the seat was cared for, among other things. Having said that, I did get mine used, but it was from a CPST so I trusted it.

We love the Futura. It has next to zero padding and sits very upright, for that has never bothered my daughter. She's 5 now, 4 feet tall and 50 pounds and only has a smidge of torso growing room before she's too tall. She buckles herself up in it without problems. It can take a while to get used to the way the harness adjusts tighter or looser (it's located on the harness itself, and you must adjust each side independently), but once you understand it it's easy. The best thing about it is the installation, in my opinion. It uses a reverse belt path that snakes around the sides of the seat, holding it so much more securely with less effort than I've spent on other installations. Also, it passes the stricter head excursion standards without the use of a top tether, if that's important to you. My daughter loves it. It sits flat on the vehicle seat, no big base, so it's easy for her to get in and out of.

The last Futuras were made in 2001, and they are good for eight years, so the best you could hope for would be 2 1/2 years or so, but probably less.

What kind of van will the seat go in? How big is your son? Maybe there are other options that don't involve buying a used seat with an unknown history?

flipper68 · Oct 19, 2006

scatterbunny said:
Next Monday when I volunteer again I'm telling the teacher how I feel about lapbelts and their lack of safety, and telling her that if a short bus will be used again in the future I will drive Hayley myself.

I'm not intending this to sound rude or snarky, but as a public school teacher, please save the teacher's ear (and your breath).

Sure you can say that next time, you'll be driving your daughter but leave it at. Contact the transporation department at the district or the transporation company about lap belts.

It's likely she has little to no control over bus arrangements other than putting in a requisition ("I need transportation for 70 students and 6 adults on Oct. 19 at 10:00am , from JFD Elem Schoolgoing to the pumpkin patch at 222 W. Orchard, returning to the School at 12:14pm"). This request may or may not be filled correctly.

I've been on trips where one class out of 4 had to stay behind and miss part of the trip because they didn't send a big enough vehicle to hold all the students and adults. Ditto then for the return trip. On one field trip, I and several other staff members sat on the floor for the return trip (where the w/c would be placed) in order for all the students to have seats. There's not much you can do or say when you have to stay with the students, you're are expected back at your building (for lunch and medicine for several students) and the only bus available isn't big enough.

Click to expand...

mamato2 · Oct 19, 2006

I understand that at the time of the field trip may not be the best time to put your foot down and say 'I'm not endagering my life and being a bad example to students to boot' but don't teachers have ANY say about transportation issues?
I would like to think that teachers and schools would have to have the best interest of the students AND teachers in mind when arranging for field trips. They may not be able to provide the very best (carseats and shoulder belts), but they should at least provide a safe solution.
Not saying teachers are to blame but might they not have some weight in the matter? I'd be steaming mad if I had to sit on the floor and I'd let someone know it's unacceptable. (Maybe you were and maybe you did...just saying I'd be upset as all get out!)
C.

Simplysomething · Oct 19, 2006

mamato2 said:
I understand that at the time of the field trip may not be the best time to put your foot down and say 'I'm not endagering my life and being a bad example to students to boot' but don't teachers have ANY say about transportation issues?

C.

I doubt it. Or if they did, it'd be minimal.

Speaking of school buses, today it was extremely foggy when the bus came, I couldn't see the end of my street, and it's not a long street. I was uneasy about him being on the bus, but it was okay. (The bus goes through the neighborhood, then less than a mile to the school).

The fog didn't lift until after 10 am. That was just weird.

As for the OP, ugh. It's a tough situation.

They didn't know how many people were going to be there before hand? I'm glad the ride was uneventful.

Ok, because I'm an idiot today, does PM class mean... pm---as in afternoon? LOL. Or does it stand for sometihng different altogether? (at first I was trying to figure out what kinda school was PM....@@ at me. Then it dawned on me, many places have morning and afternoon kindergarten, so I thought it could be that...ack. lol.)

Back to the post I quoted...when I was in the 8th grade, we took a field trip to Colonial Williamsburg (we also went in 4th grade. lol. We got to build a barrel twice! lol)... they used charter buses, because the trip is about 2.5 hours or something. Anyway, there were about 3 or 4 buses, IIRC for the trip, for all the 8th graders. And they were packed. On the way back, one of the buses broke down, instead of waiting for another bus to come and pick up the students, we were all stuffed into the other already stuffed buses, and many of us had to sit in the floor. I don't recall where any of the adults sat.

mominabigtruck · Oct 20, 2006

Scatterbunny: My son is 44in tall and 43 lbs, but most of his height is in his legs. The reason I asked about the futura was because I saw it online when I was ordering a replacement chest clip for my safe embrace. I love my se because of the color coding and the built in lockoffs my husband can install it himself in his semi. I saw the futura and I thought that would be great if its anything like my se and why don't they make them anymore so I've been keeping an eye out on ebay. I need something that is super easy to install because my mom definetely isn't a rocket scientist when it comes to these type of things and usually my 15 year old brother ends up putting him in his carseat anyways. Right now he's in a husky in my car and before I wrecked my car a couple of weeks ago he was in a marathon and he fit fine he had plenty of growing room.

LEAW · Oct 20, 2006

Teacher here too, and yah, teachers have really no control over what trans. sends out.

I worked with kids in wheelchairs, and so we needed special busses... my paperwork (after counting kids, aides, teachers, etc) was to send in my form (# of each kid, # w/c, # adult, times, etc) to the principal, who then sent it on (with school funding to cover the $$) to transportation.

Transportation then had to figure out what they were going to do, and hwo they would do it... and they sent busses out, were usually late, often w/o enough wheelchair slots or tie downs, would demand we leave early so they can do their regular afternoon routes, never had enough tie downs for walkers, canes, crutches, etc. and would send a regular bus for the kids w/walkers and crutches (rather than a lift bus, so we had to carry the kids up the steps).

Many many times I ended up putting the bare # of adults on the bus for safety reasons and driving all the rest of my staff in my van, or transporting walkers and crutches and staff while the kids went in the busses. Once we waited and missed 2/3 of our trip because htey ccouldn't send enough busses.

In the elem. school we were allotted "one bus trip per semester per teacher" - i.e. ONE bus. BUT the busses only had 2-3 wheelchair slots, and in my class of 8 I had 5 wheelchairs. So even if I had the cash for one bus, I couldn't take my class anywhere because there wasn't enough space for my kids. Very sad.

Often the trans dept. found it cheaper to hire a cab company to come out than to pay the bus drivers OT for the daytime work. We had many cabs, many short busses, many days where we were rejected for busses.

SusanMae · Oct 20, 2006

Another teacher saying that teachers don't control what busses they get.

We went on a trip last week---a week prior the planning teacher checked and we only had one bus for 72 K children plus parent---we were lucky and got a second bus.

Also during school hours, if you're child is "present" then the school is responsible for her--including her transportation. You would probably have to sign her out for the day to drive her yourself. You would have to see how that would work with the school attendance policy too.

Susan

rachel3612 · Oct 20, 2006

SusanMae said:
Also during school hours, if you're child is "present" then the school is responsible for her--including her transportation. You would probably have to sign her out for the day to drive her yourself. You would have to see how that would work with the school attendance policy too.

I am having this problem, our school has a form we have to fill out if we want to drive our kids ourselves, which I need to pick up today.

Rachel
cpst

scatterbunny · Oct 21, 2006

I will gladly jump through whatever hoops I have to jump through to keep my child safe. And I don't expect the teacher to be the one calling all the shots regarding transportation, but I don't think it's inreasonable to let her know the safety aspect of the lapbelts, and how I feel. I volunteer in the classroom twice a week and have a good relationship with the teacher.

I feel like it would have been so easy to pick a few of the tiny kids from the big bus who could have used the other harnesses in the small bus, and we could have rearranged it so the bigger kids and adults were on the big bus. I don't know. All I know is, I felt WRONG being on that bus, having myself and my child in lapbelts. It won't happen again.

I did not intend for this to be a post knocking teachers for not doing enough, I don't blame her teacher. I also don't think it's wrong to talk to the teacher so she is aware of the issue in the future, though. Like I said, maybe they could rearrange kids next time.

flipper68 · Oct 22, 2006

Simplysomething said:
Back to the post I quoted...when I was in the 8th grade, we took a field trip to Colonial Williamsburg (we also went in 4th grade. lol. We got to build a barrel twice! lol)... they used charter buses, because the trip is about 2.5 hours or something. Anyway, there were about 3 or 4 buses, IIRC for the trip, for all the 8th graders. And they were packed. On the way back, one of the buses broke down, instead of waiting for another bus to come and pick up the students, we were all stuffed into the other already stuffed buses, and many of us had to sit in the floor. I don't recall where any of the adults sat.

Been there done that, too. I was in HS and we were traveling from IA to DC. One of our convoy of buses (someone thought it was a great idea to have ALL the people from IA travel together - 14 buses for a church youth gathering) broke down and we spend 2-3 hours on the side of the road waiting for help before they loaded the kids onto 2-3 of the buses and headed on. The trip took over 24 hours!!

Come to think of it, I was following the big yellow buses taking 5th graders to the state park (45-50 minutes on the interstate

) a couple of years ago. There was a LOUD "Bang." Next thing I knew I was weaving through big chunks of black on the road. It took another few seconds for me to realize it was rubber from a tire that came from OUR bus. No one was hurt and we were able to get the tire repaired quickly. But it was rather scary.

[My experiences with buses are limited, but MEMORIABLE!]

And one more time, as a teacher, no, I don't have a thing to do with transportation after I fill out the form. The choice is to go with what you have or cancel the trip (a HUGE headache).
I need to look up the statistics (There was a fatal school bus crash here 5 years ago and there was just an article in the paper about it a couple of weeks ago.) but buses are extremely safe, especially when considering the number of miles they drive each year.

scatterbunny · Oct 23, 2006

Yep, I know the big busses are very safe, statistically speaking. I also know that the little busses aren't designed exactly the same as the big busses, and I know that lapbelts are not safe, period.

Victorious4 · Oct 24, 2006

FWIW, although technically speaking teachers don't have any control in the choice of bus (I believe this & am not arguing against it) ... my daughter's new PreK teacher is fully willing & able to enforce the idea of parents with kids under 40# providing carseats + asking for my assistance to install (state law requires the carseats). But, more than that she also enforces kids being buckled between 4-6 years old, as do the drivers.

Perhaps it's the small town aspect granting her a nice working relationship with the bus garage which is on the same premises as the school (elementary through highschool all there together).

The bus garage itself is also very receptive to my involvement, having given my business card to each driver & they themselves fully support the idea of requiring parents to give their children's weights ahead of time to know how many carseats to have as an emergency in case the parents do not provide their own -- they keep a trailer full of seats that look that like that SafeGuard Go (I forget if they have a different name, but it's the same manufacturer).

I know this is lucky for us. The situation was quite different at her last school in a larger city.

Victorious4 · Oct 25, 2006

Wanted to pass on an interesting, informative link a CPST-I here just gave me re: school bus safety > http://www.stnonline.com/stn/occupantrestraint/seatbeltdebate/evolution_continues.htm

Hayley's first kindergarten field trip

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