He isn't safe if he is crying

lovemyfamily · Apr 14, 2009

10 month old baby brother to a boy on DS#2's soccer team is FF in his AO seat. Mom has mentioned to me on 2 occasions what a pee wee he is. I had to say something to her today. I asked her if she realized that he was not as safe as he could be in his carseat, not to mention that it is against the law. She told me that he isn't safe if he is crying in the car.

WTH!? I said that I would be happy to provide her with some information with regards to RF and how it IS safer and she just said that she wasn't interested in reading anything. I am tempted to put it under her windshield wipers next week anyway. She will know it is from me, but at least she will have it there, and may be curious enough to read it.

*HH* · Apr 14, 2009

So she will rather have her son poorly protected.. than to hear him cry. She doesn't sound very smart to me.. I know some babies cries a bit and is a little impatient when they start outgroing their babyseat but that usually stops when they are put in a larger RF seat.

snowbird25ca · Apr 14, 2009

All I can say is wow. But in the end, it's not that much different from all the other reasons people use to turn kids early - their feet are touching the backseat, they're bored, they want to see the world, they want to see mom and dad, they want them to be able to see the DVD player, they're "close enough."

Ultimately people do what they want to do. Unfortunately far too many people don't get the importance of car safety and figure as long as a kid is in a carseat it's good enough. Unfortunately some of those people learn the hard way.

My pet peeve, is that parents who turn their kids early usually have a reason the kid "wants" to ff - yet the kid has no way of saying "please turn me ff'ing." They have nothing to compare - no clue that there even is another way to ride in the car - especially at 10 mos old... parents need to own the decision and say they don't give a care if they're putting their child in danger, they want them ff'ing. Then again, I doubt many parents would be willing to be *that* honest with themselves in that regard... And I'm certainly not saying it's ok to just turn a baby ff'ing. But parents who are choosing to do so should at least own up to the fact that they're doing it for themselves and not their child. :soapbox:

Murphy's Law · Apr 14, 2009

That's so upsetting. If that kid gets fatally injured in a crash, she'd probably be wishing she could hear him cry!

Defrost · Apr 14, 2009

Well, at least she's still using the carseat. I've known people who refused to even buckle their kids in their carseats if they cried - because it would be "emotionally damaging."

NannyMom · Apr 14, 2009

I have heard a similar reasoning from parents. If the baby is crying, driver is distracted. Everyone in the car is safer if driver isn't distracted. Maybe that's what she meant?

skylinphoto · Apr 14, 2009

The best I've heard is "but the sun is in his face!". lol.
Like that drastically changes while they're FFing....and because you can't just put a hat on the kid. Or ..wait for it...get a sunshade!!!!! Haha.

sparkyd · Apr 14, 2009

NannyMom said:
I have heard a similar reasoning from parents. If the baby is crying, driver is distracted. Everyone in the car is safer if driver isn't distracted. Maybe that's what she meant?

Turning the radio up helps sometimes...

cpsaddict · Apr 14, 2009

Well, shoot. That means DN has been unsafe from Day 1. He loathed the infant seat and cried hysterically from beginning to end of a trip(he's better now in the Marathon). Huh, wait'll tell my sister that! LOL!

WhatAboutPuppy · Apr 14, 2009

If she can't handle crying honestly my first thought was what happens when he's sick?? He probably gets a lot of medicine. I can barely even picture a baby that small FF. Good luck with the flyer. Could you give the local PD a call and mention it? It's worked for me before, but I lived in a smaller sized town that had time to spare for me.

Ok, this a side note brought about by the sun in the eyes comment... I drive a Honda Element, the sun roof is above the back seats!! He doesn't complain (or I'd find an even better way to block it) but the sun literally comes straight down on him! lol I know it looks cool when adults are sitting back there but I can't get over how poorly designed this feature is for RF children!! I have two sunshades stuck to it and when the sun comes back in the summer I have another "honda shade" thing that snaps over that also use. lol

Caseylaine · Apr 14, 2009

I dont think thre is much you can do in this situation.... are carseat issues followed up in your community? Can she get a ticket? You might report it if you wanted to.

My BIL and SIL FF'ed their kids at 5 months!!! and 6 or 7 months!!!!!! At the time I was young, with no kids and didn't know a whole lot better. I did ask about the younger one whether she should be in a FF'ing seat and he told me "Well she weighs enough." NICE.

Some people you just dont get through to... ever. I've forced them to come to car seat clinics, got them to buy a Radian for their bigger boy (much good that did as they don't know how to tighten the straps on ANY of their seats, and install them wrong all the time in very dangerous ways...) But how many times can you pry into people's business?? Even if you do care for the safety of the child?

I got in trouble for it, and honestly.. now.. 4 years later I am sick and tired of their excuses. I want their kids to be safe... but if they don't care, what can I do? I can't re-install their seats every time I see them... especially since they wont let me into their cars any more.

lovemyfamily · Apr 14, 2009

I can hope that they get stopped. Our city has been doing these random carseat checks, I believe the fine is $150, for kids who are not properly buckled based on the law. That would include kids that are FF too early etc.
I love it when BTDT mom's tell new mom's that it is ok to turn early, that they did it and their kid was just fine, never had an accident etc. Not all parents can say that.

Kat_Momof3 · Apr 15, 2009

you know, Ruthie had a blood curdling scream back in the day in her infant bucket.

And I grant you, it made it harder to drive. A switch to a good convertible seat (40lb limit Triumph... but hey, it fit and she was all of a sudden silent) cured that...

We heard it again when she was almost 1yr old... from her legs... her pigeon-toeing stemmed from her hips and pressing her feet into the vehicle seat caused real pain... and she wasn't old enough to keep her legs bent (especially with such short legs).

While it did make me have to think about turning her ff at 1yr old (note... did not do it... forever thanking murphydog for that one... she searched and found me the solution of reclining the captain's chair of my still very new at the time van)... never in my wildest dreams would I turn her before that.

I honestly would have gotten those ear plugs that muffle noise but don't keep you from hearing the important noises (sirens and such) or (and this sounds just as bad or worse than ear plugs) I would have moved her to the third row (which I ended up doing anyway, when she was older and used the scenera full time with Jeffrey in the Marathon... so I could more easily buckle all 3 kids) so that the noise would not be as loud.

I would stop approaching it from the safety aspect and instead look at it from a compassionate understanding aspect.

Offer to help her make him more comfortable and happy rearfacing.... so that he can stay rearfacing to the minimum requirements of his seat at least (1yr, 22lbs, 34")

My guess is the seat needs a better recline and/or he may have the same leg issues Ruthie had... OR... it could be something as silly as he's crying because his pacifier dropped and she wants him facing forward so she can reach back while driving and pop it in his mouth.

Of course, there is also a possibility he has reflux and needs LESS recline.

I guess my point is... before jumping onto the safety stuff, I'd be asking why he's crying so badly that she feels she has to flip him before it's safe.

Cryssy Jane · Apr 15, 2009

One of my clients does the same thing. She waited until baby was a year old and flipped him right away... keep in mind now at 14 months he's only 24 lbs. But she complaines that it's just so hard for her to get him in the carseat rf in her car (04 ford focus 2dr hatchback) and that he really wanted to see her and cried all the time rf. I do find this funny because he rides RF in my car with no problems, is always giggling or singing, no tears. Even now when I told her about the new AAP recomendations she said 'well that's not for people with small cars'... are you kidding me?

On another note, my sister and bIL flipped my niece at 10 months (18lbs) because she constantly screamed in her bucket. As soon as they FF she has been much happier in the car, not safer by any means but not screaming. I recommended different things to try but sister is not exactly good at taking pointers from anyone else.

lovemyfamily · Apr 18, 2009

stegmanc said:
One of my clients does the same thing. She waited until baby was a year old and flipped him right away... keep in mind now at 14 months he's only 24 lbs. But she complaines that it's just so hard for her to get him in the carseat rf in her car (04 ford focus 2dr hatchback) and that he really wanted to see her and cried all the time rf. I do find this funny because he rides RF in my car with no problems, is always giggling or singing, no tears. Even now when I told her about the new AAP recomendations she said 'well that's not for people with small cars'... are you kidding me?

On another note, my sister and bIL flipped my niece at 10 months (18lbs) because she constantly screamed in her bucket. As soon as they FF she has been much happier in the car, not safer by any means but not screaming. I recommended different things to try but sister is not exactly good at taking pointers from anyone else.

Gosh, I would think you want that protection even more in a smaller car. Some people just have excuses for doing things, and they can blame a baby who cannot talk, for them.

rochelle · Apr 20, 2009

lovemyfamily, stegmanc,

DH drives "harshly" whenever either of my boys cry in the car. he has a very low threshold for boys crying while he is driving. sometimes its so bad, I ask him to make a stop to let them calm down but he rather rush all the way home.

so its up to you to ascertain if the crying affects the driver's ability to drive safely.

My Sweet Blessings · Apr 20, 2009

As you guys are getting ready to leave the ball park, call the cops. Give them as much heads up as you can and tell them what's going on. I have called the cops on lack or carseat use/major improper use several times. I have to tell ya, I get a rush when a cop pulls them over because I KNOW the cop is going to set them straight on the issue and the law. I may not have the guts to say something, but that cop sure does!

southpawboston · Apr 20, 2009

rochelle said:
DH drives "harshly" whenever either of my boys cry in the car. he has a very low threshold for boys crying while he is driving. sometimes its so bad, I ask him to make a stop to let them calm down but he rather rush all the way home.

so its up to you to ascertain if the crying affects the driver's ability to drive safely.

you're spot on. :thumbsup:

we once had to drive from NYC back to boston when DD1 was only 2 months old and going through a blood-curdling screaming fit. she was RF, of course, in her snugride. she was screaming at the top of her lungs the entire ride. both DW and i were such nervous wrecks that our ability to drive (we took turns) was severely impaired. we had headaches. we couldn't concentrate. we finally made it, and thankfully we haven't had too many episodes since then that were as bad (or as long).

for us this had nothing to do with RFing or FFing, and RFing wasn't the reason for the hysteria. but the point is that a screaming baby can certainly make a driver less safe than usual.

skylinphoto · Apr 20, 2009

When a RFing (or FFing for that matter) baby is screaming..it can REALLY make for an unsafe driver.
That's when you pull over and make them happy somehow..or at least take a break. (much safer than trying to grin and bear it.....or reaching back to make a young FFer happier). That's what we do.

lovemyfamily · Apr 21, 2009

I TOTALLY agree that a crying baby can be a distraction. It has happened to me before, and I had to pull over and deal with it. My DH tolerates it much better than I do.
We drove 9 hours from Portland to our home in Idaho once with DS#2 crying most of the 9 hours. It as horrible, but we knew that no matter what, he was safest RF. He was one of those kids that HATED the car until we turned him. But we stuck to it and kept him RF until about 2.

He isn't safe if he is crying

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