using a carseat without top tether??!!!

jherdrover80 · Mar 27, 2009

I have a friend who just told me she uses her son in his FF carseat without a top tether. She said the carseat doesn't have a top tether on it and didn't know what it was for. She uses a seatbelt because her vehicle is older and doesn't have the LATCH system, but I don't know if she uses a seatbelt clip. We live in BC and she took her vehicle to a inspector at ICBC (BC car insurance company) and the lady told her it's fine that the top of the carseat moves back and forth. She said as long as the child is seatbelted and the carseat is seatbelted then they are secure. This doesn't sound right to me and I've tried to explain to her via email what the top tether is used for and she would need to get the car manufacturer to install a tether hook in her van, but she doesn't understand where it would go...all because her carseat doesn't have the tether strap. Is there a way to get a tether strap for her carseat so that she can use it if she gets a hook installed in her van. We live far apart, so I'm not nearby to show her how her carseat should be installed. I know how important it is to have the tether strap installed, but should she be using her carseat without one?

Pixels · Mar 27, 2009

She definitely should not be using her seat without top tether. If the seat came without a top tether, it is super old and therefore expired, or else not a Canadian seat. If the seat came with a tether, it must be used. If her seat has one, either she doesn't know what it is, or it may have been removed. If it has been removed at some point, the seat should be destroyed and replaced, as who knows what else may have been done to the seat.

Auntie2six · Mar 27, 2009

What if the car doesn't have top tethers? My 2.5 year old nephew rides in a Eddie Bauer high back booster with 5pt harness in my car and I dont top tether it b/c my car doesn't have top tethers. My car is a 1998 Dodge Stratus.

Nevermind, I didn't notice that this was talking about in canada, oopsies! Do the same rules apply for in the USA?

canmom · Mar 27, 2009

It should have a tether and it is in fact required that you top tether a seat ffing in Canada, by law. I'm not sure what kind of "tech" she spoke with but she needs to find a different one and likely a different seat if there really isn't a top tether.

bobandjess99 · Mar 27, 2009

I'm not a CA expert by any means, but my understanding is you guys MUST top tether, right? So yes, she needs to top tether.
as far as the seat being expired...again, since your laws are different, I'm not sure how old the seat may or may not be. I know that I have a seat that is not expired that does not have a top tether attached to it...it CAME with one, but it was separate and you were supposed to install it yourself by looping it through the tether point on the shell, and I never did, since at the time, I did not have any vehicles with a tether, and then of course I lost the stupid thing. I'm not sure if you have seats like that in CA or not, or if all seats come with the tether installed in it. If her seat had one but myabe it came off or whatever, perhaps you could order one? Assuming the seat isn't expired of course.

bobandjess99 · Mar 27, 2009

Auntie2six said:
What if the car doesn't have top tethers? My 2.5 year old nephew rides in a Eddie Bauer high back booster with 5pt harness in my car and I dont top tether it b/c my car doesn't have top tethers. My car is a 1998 Dodge Stratus.

The OP is posting about Canada, where by law you must top tether, and vehicles have had tether points for much longer than we have down here.

Pixels · Mar 27, 2009

You should contact your dealership about getting them retrofitted. I don't have too much info specific to Canada, but I'll give you what I have.

"DaimlerChrysler dealers will install tether anchors in certain older model year Chrysler Group vehilces free of charge. Please have the dealer refer to TSB 23-008-00 Rev. B for details on this policy." - That info is likely specific to the US, but it can't hurt to give that number to your dealer and have them check.

Dodge Canada: English: 800-465-2001; French: 800-387-9983 www.daimlerchrysler.ca

For the 95-99 model years Stratus, there are 3 tether anchor locations in the rear filler panel, in which tether anchors can be retrofitted. Part number 04519077AB.

snowbird25ca · Mar 27, 2009

If her seat doesn't have a top tether it is either damaged or long since expired. There were some recalls issued on seats that were shipped without a top tether a number of years ago, but even those seats have long since expired. I believe that recall is late 80's or early 90's. (I'd have to look it up to know for sure when the recall was issued. It coincides with when top tethers became required.)

I'd be doubtful that she spoke with an actual tech because any tech who has been properly trained is going to know that the seat must have a top tether and that a vehicle dealer will be able to retrofit top tether anchors. Most techs will also be aware of how to obtain a replacement tether - and if it was a clinic I would've expected extra tethers to be on hand

pixels99 said:
You should contact your dealership about getting them retrofitted. I don't have too much info specific to Canada, but I'll give you what I have.

"DaimlerChrysler dealers will install tether anchors in certain older model year Chrysler Group vehilces free of charge. Please have the dealer refer to TSB 23-008-00 Rev. B for details on this policy." - That info is likely specific to the US, but it can't hurt to give that number to your dealer and have them check.

Dodge Canada: English: 800-465-2001; French: 800-387-9983 www.daimlerchrysler.ca

For the 95-99 model years Stratus, there are 3 tether anchor locations in the rear filler panel, in which tether anchors can be retrofitted. Part number 04519077AB.

Actually, that info is all CDN specific. At the very beginning all the retrofit bulletin info came from an official in TC who provided it to SRN. :thumbsup:

Pixels · Mar 27, 2009

snowbird25ca said:
Actually, that info is all CDN specific. At the very beginning all the retrofit bulletin info came from an official in TC who provided it to SRN. :thumbsup:

Good to know it's the same, thanks.

carseatcoach · Mar 27, 2009

How old is the carseat if it does not have a tether strap?

TechnoGranola · Mar 27, 2009

chickabiddy said:
How old is the carseat if it does not have a tether strap?

I wonder the same. My convertible bought in '98 had a tether strap so obviously more than 11 years old.

Jeanum · Mar 27, 2009

The technical service bulletin listed above for retrofitting a Chrysler/Dodge vehicle with tether anchors was superseded by a more recent bulletin with a different number according to the latest 2009 edition of the LATCH manual. Dealerships tend to be confused about honoring the free tether anchor retrofit policy, and an older bulletin number could unfortunately add to the confusion, possibly leading the service department to say the policy is no longer in effect.

The currently applicable Chrysler technical service bulletin is 23-029-08 dated October 24, 2008. Additionally, Chrysler/Dodge dealership service departments can find information in the Warranty Information Center (WIC) article #1339. The actual tether anchor part number for the Stratus is the same as given above, and the retrofitting should still be handled free of charge in U.S. and Canadian Chrysler/Dodge vehicles. Just refer the dealership service department to the current bulletin and WIC article to get the ball rolling.

unityco · Mar 28, 2009

bobandjess99 said:
...vehicles [in Canada] have had tether points for much longer than we have down here.

I'm not sure that's true (though it could be.

) As far as tethers and LATCH are concerned, I believe our time lines match the U.S.'s - we've had them no longer than you.

Pixels · Mar 28, 2009

unityco said:
I'm not sure that's true (though it could be. ) As far as tethers and LATCH are concerned, I believe our time lines match the U.S.'s - we've had them no longer than you.

From the LATCH manual: Tethers have been required equipment for all forward-facing CRs made since 1980 in Canada. Passenger cars have been required to have designated anchor points and retrofit kits since 1989. Starting September 1, 1999, CMVSS 210.1 required user-ready tether anchor hardware to be factory-installed in all new passenger cars, mirroring the US standard. It applied to light trucks and multi-purpose vehicles on or after September 1, 2000.

US: CRs manufactured on or after September 1, 1999, must meet the stricter head excursion standard. (Essentially making top tethers mandatory.)

US and Canada: CRs manufactured on or after September 1, 2002, have to have lower anchorages.

US and Canada: Vehicle tether anchors: 80% of vehicles made on or after 9/1/99; 100% of vehicles made on or after 9/1/00.

US and Canada: Vehicle lower anchors: 20% of vehilces made on or after 9/1/00; 50% of all vehicles made on or after 9/1/01; 100% of vehicles made on or after 9/1/02.

Basically, Canadian CRs have had top tethers much longer than the US, but your vehicles didn't come pre-equipped with the hardware necessary to use them until the same time the US required them. Canada has had the option (ability to use, not making any legal statements) to use them much longer than the US, because US CRs didn't have top tethers.

snowbird25ca · Mar 28, 2009

From the CDN CRST instructor manual:
As of 1989 All passenger cars must have a pre-drilled holed that can accommodate an M8 bolt (metric)
- NOT vans, SUV's, light trucks.

Model year 2000 passenger cars - pre-installed
MY 2001 - all other vehicles (SUV, etc) - pre-installed based on number of seating positions.

~~~~

UAS became required here at the same time as LATCH in the US - Sept 1, 2002.

Some vehicles had factory tether anchors long before standards required them - some Ford vans from 1995 have them straight from the factory. As you get closer to the point where it became required for them to come pre-installed it becomes more common - at least in cars, to see the opening covered by a little plastic cap. Some manufacturers will supply instructions on how to install the TA and you can buy the part for $10. Some dealers will give the option of installing it for free including the part, others charge for it.

One thing you can count on most of the time when you call a dealership in Canada is that there should be somebody there who knows what you're asking about. Some dealers will actually have somebody on staff who has gone and completed specific training. I know I've spoken to a person at one of the dealerships here who has been specifically trained and takes care of all the requests for tether anchors - he actually preferred to arrange to have the vehicle booked in for a free retrofit rather than providing instructions to the parent as to how to do it at home.

Some restraints used to come with a tether anchor, but it's not recommended to use those anymore because there can be a problem with compatibility sometimes.

snowbird25ca · Mar 28, 2009

I just wanted to add that I went through the old public notices and found notices from as far back as 1985 that also affected 1984 seats in regards to missing tether straps or requiring one to meet head excursion requirements. So I believe the 720mm head excursion requirement pre-dated the pre-drilled holes requirement. I'll try and find out when it came in to effect though.

Pixels · Mar 28, 2009

snowbird25ca said:
I just wanted to add that I went through the old public notices and found notices from as far back as 1985 that also affected 1984 seats in regards to missing tether straps or requiring one to meet head excursion requirements. So I believe the 720mm head excursion requirement pre-dated the pre-drilled holes requirement. I'll try and find out when it came in to effect though.

pixels99 said:
From the LATCH manual: Tethers have been required equipment for all forward-facing CRs made since 1980 in Canada. Passenger cars have been required to have designated anchor points and retrofit kits since 1989. Starting September 1, 1999, CMVSS 210.1 required user-ready tether anchor hardware to be factory-installed in all new passenger cars, mirroring the US standard. It applied to light trucks and multi-purpose vehicles on or after September 1, 2000.

The 720 mm standard for head excursion went into effect in 1980.

snowbird25ca · Mar 28, 2009

From the LATCH manual: Tethers have been required equipment for all forward-facing CRs made since 1980 in Canada.

This isn't completely accurate because they are still NOT required. Manufacturers are required to meet the 720mm head excursion. If they can do it without a top tether, the top tether is not required. There is no law requiring top tethers in Canada, and nothing in the standards mandating a top tether. It is only the head excursion which is addressed. At this point in time no manufacturer is able to meet the 720mm limit without a top tether, which is why most people view it as being a requirement - for all intents and purposes it is.

CMVSS does not place design restrictions on seats. It is performance based and not design. If a seat performs without a top tether, a manufacturer doesn't have to require it. (This extends to other things, like foot props etc. There is nothing limiting how a manufacturer designs the seat provided it meets standards.)

Pixels · Mar 28, 2009

A poor choice of words, but fuctionally it's the same, since AFAIK there are no restraints that meet the 720 mm excursion limit without a top tether.

But to answer your question about when the 720 mm excursion limit went into effect, it was 1980.

snowbird25ca · Mar 29, 2009

pixels99 said:
A poor choice of words, but fuctionally it's the same, since AFAIK there are no restraints that meet the 720 mm excursion limit without a top tether.

But to answer your question about when the 720 mm excursion limit went into effect, it was 1980.

Actually, I just heard back and as long as there have been ff'ing seats and corresponding standards for them in Canada it has been 720mm. So there was never a point when there was a higher allowable limit and it was lowered to 720mm.

It's possible that ff'ing seat standards first came into effect in 1980 - that would explain the comment in the LATCH manual anyways...

For history sake, there has been 1 seat made that didn't require a top tether. After it had been on market awhile it started having a mix of pass and fails and a tether ended up being required and a recall was issued.

using a carseat without top tether??!!!

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