what kind of seatbelts are in a subaru Forrester?? Radian Install....

mamabear · Mar 20, 2009

what kind of seatbelts are in a subaru Forrester?? Radian Install...*UPDATE post #9*

*mods, not sure where to put this...feel free to move if need be*

Like a 2005-2006??

My friend got a Radian XT and said her DH had to use a locking clip???It's not in there good..

I'm going to help them re install....What kind of seatbelts do they have??

Any tricks for the Radian in a Forrester??

Splash · Mar 20, 2009

Useless is the short answer.

They're switchable ALR, but don't bother with the Radian. It can't be done. Not in a 2006 at least. You can play with it and challenge me if you like, but it can't be done. LATCH is a dream, like the seat is built into the car, but the belt, in all positions, is 100% incompatible. One of the many reasons it had to leave our life (though I'd rather kill the Subaru!).

The only seats that I have ever known to install well with the belt are the GN, MA/BV, and True Fit. Regent LBP was iffy, but impossible to put it in the car with the RB. Frontier LBP is possible, but extremely difficult and by no means solid.

mamabear · Mar 20, 2009

Well I'm sure I can show them how to do it with LATCH, but the kid is 36-37ish pounds, so eventually they will have to switch to the seatbelt. What then??I was hoping to just show them how to do it with the seatblet since it will ultimately come down to that ya know??

I tried to talk them into getting a Frontier or a Nautilus, should I try to get them to exchange it?? Would that be more compatible??

Or keep with the Radian and a locking clip or what??

carseatcoach · Mar 20, 2009

The Radian LATCHes to 48 pounds (IIRC) and Subaru to 60, so they have a while yet. I was able to install just fine with seatbelts outboard in my 2003 Forester.

Splash · Mar 20, 2009

I've been told I can keep it latched to 60 pounds, but probably wouldn't. The GN installs great with the belt, easier and tighter than the anchors, really. Frontier can be latched to 60, though it is possible (albeit extremely difficult) with the LBP.

mamabear · Mar 20, 2009

Splash said:
I've been told I can keep it latched to 60 pounds, but probably wouldn't.

Told?? By who?? (I'm just curios, I would want to know the source if I was going to pass that info along to them

)

Thanks guys, I have a little more info to work with now. I still don't know the year of their car. It may be a 2007 (are those different??), Anywhere from a 2005-2007, he just said he wasn't sure " a couple of years old", he thinks

Well, we'll try it, and if we can't get it to work and they don't want to do LATCH, I'll see if I can't get them to exchange it for a GN.

Thanks again!!

Splash · Mar 20, 2009

Russ, of course. But he says a lot of things to a lot of people...

2007 is identical to 2006. It wasn't until the 2008 model year that they changed. Unless the XT is significantly different than the regular RN, it's not gonna work with the belt. But it's so flipping impossible to get a seat to work in that car because the backseat is so small, the Radian really FITS better than anything, just doesn't install worth jack.

mamabear · Mar 21, 2009

Well, thanks again ladies...I'll let you know how it goes. We'll be getting together Monday I think.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2009

OK so we did it.

Their car is a 2006. We installed in center with the seatbelt and top tether.
It was really wiggly at first, but we just kept on it and it got tight. really tight. Like not even 1" movement at the beltpath. If we shook it from other areas than the belt path, it had a little more wiggle, maybe an inch. This was all before hooking the tether.

It wasn't that hard so now I'm wondering if we did something wrong

I mean, it was not easy, it took 2 of us. He was kneeling in the seat with both knees and I was pulling the seatblet tight at the same time. At first not even that worked because the female end of the passenger belt was right behind Radian (that thing barely sticks up out of the seat!!), preventing it from becoming fully tight. Then I pulled and held that out while he was still kneeling in the seat and he pulled up on the shoulder belt and it clicked a couple more times. Voila. Tight.

The only snag we hit was when It came time to tighten the Harness.
We added the safe stop because little guy is tiny. Like 36 lbs, but average height. I don't know what that did, but the harness is really hard to tighten.it was actually hard to adjust before I added the safe stop because I was trying to extend it out far enough and it's just tough, but it got worse after the install. I was able to squeeze my hand back behind the seat and can't feel it hung up on anything

Ideas??

So they were happy with it, and so was I, as far as I can tell it's all good.

They are taking it out of town on a plane next week so I told them to keep an eye on it and see if it seems to loosen up or anything before then. If it does,when they get home we are going to try outboard with the seatbelt then LATCH, to see what we can get.If the seatbelt doesn't end up working, I think they can still get a lot of use out of this seat with just a LATCH install. This kid is likely to be 6 before he weighs over 48lbs.

feel free to let me know if I missed anything....thanks again for the help!!

Splash · Mar 23, 2009

Ummm...

I worked for hours, hours, trying to put it in a 2006. Joy tried. Starr tried. I took it to another tech and she tried. I dented my roof and made my hands bleed, and it still never ever ever went in. And, not to be cocky, but if I can't do it, I really don't think it can be done. Chickabiddy has a car a few years older than mine, and she managed to do it in hers but not without a lot of grief. Sooo... I'm really skeptical that it's installed right and tight if you did it without any pain. If you did it at all, really.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2009

what could be wrong then??

It's really rock solid. It doesn't move at the beltpath, it moves about 1" if you pull forward,like where you can adjust the harness.

I have to say, It wasn't hard at all. That's why I wonder if I'm missing something:scratcheshead:

I kept checking it and checking trying to see if we messed up. I had prepared them for a struggle and there wasn't really one. I had them all prepared to just have to take it back to the store and exchange it, but it was just in there, like it should be...

What else should I check??

Why couldn't you get it in your car?? maybe if I knew, I could see if we had those same obstacles, or if they just didn't exist for us.???

Even when they showed up, and he had it in with the locking clip it was pretty tight. It's just that he made his fingers bleed to get the locking clip on, and he was by himself, but it was in there solid.

I wonder why it was so easy for us????

What else can I check???

carseatcoach · Mar 23, 2009

As Splash wrote, it's not an easy install. It never took me less than 25 minutes and always involved blood, sweat, tears, and bad words. I hesitated posting it as a success because I don't want people thinking it is compatible. My turn to be cocky -- I am a very very good installer (acknowledged by other techs with whom I work) and a very very stubborn woman with a whole lot of body mass and muscle. So yeah, if it was "not that hard", I'm skeptical. And I would not be okay with 1" of forward movement.

(P.S. I had a 2003 Forester X with cloth seats. I no longer have that vehicle, if you're reading my siggy.)

Pixels · Mar 23, 2009

chickabiddy said:
And I would not be okay with 1" of forward movement.

Why not? That's the goal, one inch or less when you pull at the belt path.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2009

OK I'll ask again. WHY couldn't you get it in your cars?? what specifically was the problem(s)??

It wasn't "easy" It took two of us really using all of our strength about 20 minutes to get it. I was expecting a lot worse, that's why I ask.

So, aside from them possibly being off on the year of their car and it's really a 2005, and that somehow matters, or the Radian XT has a different belt path that somehow makes it "easier" I don't know what we did wrong.

All I know is it's in really tight. I had warned them that this was going to be "so hard and probably not possible" but it seems to have worked, so I'm throwing my arms up in amazement at this sheer miracle, or we seriously messed up. I'm willing to admit that could have happened. But This isn't my first time around the block.I've been on this board for 3 years. I've installed my share of seats and I am a self proclaimed perfectionist. I couldn't even get a Nautilus in my CRV to my liking, so I know I'm not skipping steps or just ignorant. I've read the "Radian successful install" thread a dozen times because at one point I wanted one, then decided I probably couldn't do. I'm not trying to be naive or annoying. I really am asking for your help, but so far all I've gotten is "It can't be done. period" That's not really that helpful you know??

They are uninstalling it next week and going out of town, we are going to get back together after that and give it another go. I'm willing to accept that a seatbelt install won't work, but so far it has seemed to.

We (me and the dad ) are both intelligent people, We followed the instructions (I read them 3 times) And it's in tight. Am I to believe that Sunshine kids makes a seat that somehow all of that = incorrect and disbelief by others??

I really care about this kid's safety, If I'm doing it wrong, I want to know. It would really help me to have more info as to why it can't work, maybe then I'd know what to look for.

Thanks for the help before....I really could use more if you have it.

snowbird25ca · Mar 23, 2009

pixels99 said:
Why not? That's the goal, one inch or less when you pull at the belt path.

The radian likes to slip forward - that's it's biggest installation challenge in a lot of vehicles. If it's at 1" forward, I wouldn't be happy either because I'd be doubtful that 1" would be what it would stay at. 1" is the most movement you'd want to have, and being at the max 1" of front to back movement with the Radian just isn't a good thing because that's where the Radian likes to move when it's not in tight enough or if it's incompatible with a vehicle. I might settle for being right at an inch in a pinch, but I wouldn't be happy with it long term and would definitely choose another seating location if there was one that provided for a tighter install.

1" may be acceptable, but it's not ideal - I'm not happy with calling an install good when the seat slides forward a full inch every time you tighten the harness. It would be possible in a situation like that for the movement to increase a bit over time as the seat moved forward and back repeatedly - and pretty soon your barely acceptable install would be unacceptable. If you're debating on whether it's just barely an inch or over an inch, it's too much movement. :thumbsup:

Pixels · Mar 23, 2009

As long as the seatbelt is locked so that the installation doesn't loosen, and there is less than one inch of movement at the belt path, checking both side to side and front to back, I think you're golden. That's really all there is to check.

You've said you've read the threads. I assume you've read the Install Tips thread for Radian with FOTB belts. You probably were using a lot of the tricks from there without necessarily realizing it. I'm guessing that somehow you stumbled upon the correct combination.

I've had techs on this board tell me that something I was doing was impossible, because they had tried it together and it couldn't be done. But I DID. The seat was solid.

Pixels · Mar 23, 2009

mamabear said:
It doesn't move at the beltpath, it moves about 1" if you pull forward,like where you can adjust the harness.

snowbird25ca said:
The radian likes to slip forward - that's it's biggest installation challenge in a lot of vehicles. If it's at 1" forward, I wouldn't be happy either because I'd be doubtful that 1" would be what it would stay at. 1" is the most movement you'd want to have, and being at the max 1" of front to back movement with the Radian just isn't a good thing because that's where the Radian likes to move when it's not in tight enough or if it's incompatible with a vehicle. I might settle for being right at an inch in a pinch, but I wouldn't be happy with it long term and would definitely choose another seating location if there was one that provided for a tighter install.

1" may be acceptable, but it's not ideal - I'm not happy with calling an install good when the seat slides forward a full inch every time you tighten the harness. It would be possible in a situation like that for the movement to increase a bit over time as the seat moved forward and back repeatedly - and pretty soon your barely acceptable install would be unacceptable. If you're debating on whether it's just barely an inch or over an inch, it's too much movement. :thumbsup:

She said it doesn't move at the belt path, only at the harness adjuster. We always tell people (particularly with RFing seats) it doesn't matter if the seat moves like crazy at this part over here (not at the belt path), it only matters at the belt path.

I was strongly questioning an install that I had done of a FFing AOE. It moved like in the description above, not at the belt path, but the bottom slid about an inch if you pulled there. I was considering it an unacceptable install, but the CPSTI who checked it said it was excellent, because it didn't move if you grabbed at the belt path. I said yeah but ... and she called another CPSTI over. He agreed, it was an excellent install.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2009

snowbird25ca said:
The radian likes to slip forward - that's it's biggest installation challenge in a lot of vehicles. If it's at 1" forward, I wouldn't be happy either because I'd be doubtful that 1" would be what it would stay at.

Thank you, this is really helpful. I think it's under an inch, but I'll check again. we see them at preschool tomorrow. We are going to re do the whole install again after next week, so stuff like this is helpfull so I know what to look for. I DID warn them that the seat may loosen over time, and to check for tightness every time they use it first. The dad is completlety capable of re doing what we did today if he has to (maybe his wife can help)

pixels99 said:
As long as the seatbelt is locked so that the installation doesn't loosen, and there is less than one inch of movement at the belt path, checking both side to side and front to back, I think you're golden. That's really all there is to check.

Yep, Check to all of that.

pixels99 said:
You've said you've read the threads. I assume you've read the Install Tips thread for Radian with FOTB belts.

I knew all of the tricks. We didn't have to really use any though, except for muscle strength. But their seatbelts are not FOTB, they come right out of the bight, and have very very short buckle stalks, like almost inside the seat.
Hmmmmm.....

snowbird25ca · Mar 23, 2009

mamabear said:
I knew all of the tricks. We didn't have to really use any though, except for muscle strength. But their seatbelts are not FOTB, they come right out of the bight, and have very very short buckle stalks, like almost inside the seat.
Hmmmmm.....

Hmmm is right. I haven't seen the Subaru in question, but from what I've read it's a combo of long buckle stalks and a center hump that causes the problems in other subaru vehicles.

I just realized that I didn't answer your initial question about the harness being hard to adjust. Is the back of the seat snug enough against the vehicle seat that it's just compressing against the vehicle seat? I know some of the older radians had a problem with the harness being hard to adjust when the safe stop was being used because the channel wasn't quite deep enough, but I know they made that channel deeper back in 2007 and I haven't heard of a lot of difficulties since then. The adjuster is one that requires the pull-release like the Britax seats, so could that be part of the problem?

Pixels - the typical movement seen with the radian (when the install isn't quite acceptable yet,) is when you pull on the adjuster strap the seat slides forward - obviously if the seat is sliding forward more than 1" when you go to tighten the harness it's a problem even if it doesn't present itself when you initially check for movement at the belt path. In some vehicles, that little bit of slip forward is enough to make the entire installation loosen just because of the seatbelt geometry. :thumbsup:

When the movement is greater than that it appears even when checking just at the belt path, but considering that you pull forward on the front of the seat every time you tighten the harness with the radian, if it slips a great deal forward when you do that than it's an unacceptable install.

mamabear · Mar 23, 2009

snowbird25ca said:
Hmmm is right. I haven't seen the Subaru in question, but from what I've read it's a combo of long buckle stalks and a center hump that causes the problems in other subaru vehicles.

It looked like this but with tan leather interior. There wasn't really a hump in the middle, not more than my honda civic
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcont...l=forester/firstNav=Gallery/photoId=20077096#

snowbird25ca said:
I just realized that I didn't answer your initial question about the harness being hard to adjust. Is the back of the seat snug enough against the vehicle seat that it's just compressing against the vehicle seat?

No, I was able to slide my hand in between to see if that harness was caught.

I think that the headwings may be interfering, I'm going to check again. It didn't appear that they were covering the harness slots (in fact, I'm pretty sure they weren't) but there is another thread on here saying that may be a problem.

FWIW the harness was a little hard to adjust before I added that safe stop, so I don't know...

what kind of seatbelts are in a subaru Forrester?? Radian Install....

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