Question adding top tethers 2004 quest

jec2b

New member
We have a 2004 nissan quest and our family is expanding. We need to get three FF car seats in the 3rd row. There is only one top tether, in the center position. Is there a way of adding more top tether anchors? Who do we talk to and what do we ask for as the dealers seem clueless when we ask. The latest suggested that we connect to the cargo anchors which are clearly not attatched to the frame. :eek: We have even looked at larger vehicles but run into the same problem.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jamie

Josh and Matt 9/4/04, FF Britax regents
Nate, 3/19/08, RF Radian80
Baby #4, due 11/31/09
 
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wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Unfortunately with a car that's already had tethers and LATCH done at the factory you can't add any more. :( So you're stuck with what you have.

Why do you need to do three across the back? You can try the Radian rear facing between the two Regents, that may work. May not. And that's only good if the oldest two are under 40 pounds. The Regents need to be top tethered after 40 pounds with the lap and shoulder belt, though, so if Josh and Matt are approaching 40 pounds or over it they each need a tether. So they'd have to go in the captain's chairs, or one in a captain's chair and one in the center in the back. Maybe the Radian goes rear facing outboard, the Regent in the middle, the baby and another Regent in the captain's chairs.

Wendy
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
You can technically get aftermarket tether anchors added, but it's generally quite expensive. Not a do-it-yourself job in this case, and you generally have to find a body shop willing to do it.

When I looked into for my own vehicle, the estimate was over $300 and involved removing the bumper and actually cutting into the frame and re-welding it. :eek:
 

jec2b

New member
the estimate was over $300 and involved removing the bumper and actually cutting into the frame and re-welding it. :eek:

Still, $300 is a lot cheaper than us having to buy a new vehicle, custom made with extra top tether anchors. By far, the most reasonble option for us is to somehow retro fit the Quest with more anchors. The twins are close to 40 lbs, and we are using the top tethers for their Regents. I need to be able to put them in the back seat, with the baby and the new baby in the captain's chairs. We will have another child in another year or so, so if we are going to alter the van I want to do so with that in mind....thus the need for 3 top tether anchors in the 3rd row. Sigh.

So do I just go to any body shop and ask about this? Is there a specific type of shop that would specialize in this kind of work?
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
Still, $300 is a lot cheaper than us having to buy a new vehicle, custom made with extra top tether anchors. By far, the most reasonble option for us is to somehow retro fit the Quest with more anchors. The twins are close to 40 lbs, and we are using the top tethers for their Regents. I need to be able to put them in the back seat, with the baby and the new baby in the captain's chairs. We will have another child in another year or so, so if we are going to alter the van I want to do so with that in mind....thus the need for 3 top tether anchors in the 3rd row. Sigh.

So do I just go to any body shop and ask about this? Is there a specific type of shop that would specialize in this kind of work?

I understand the desire/instinct to put your tiniest babies closest to you, but why don't you just put the kids that need tethers in the seats that have them, and put the rearfacing seats in the positions with no tethers? Yes, it puts the babies in the back row, but Bam, problem solved, no new tethers necesary.
another option would be to buy new seats which do not *require* tethers.
regents are overkill for most kids anyway, and given the age and size of your kids, (just now pushing 40 lbs at 4.5 years old) they are NOT huge, correct? So you could get nautiluses or Frontiers, neither of which require a tether (well, the frontier does after 65 pounds, but that is almost irrelevent, since most kids will height out of the seat by then anyway) and keep them harnessed to 65 without a tether being required. Still gonna get most kids to 6-7 harnessed, then they are decent bosters.
just a couple of other options to ponder.
 

Nennib

New member
I had once heard concerns about adding unapproved tether anchors being an issue in terms of vehicle warranties and liability.

Specifically I heard about concerns related to the addition of tethers and their proximity to the fuel tank, rupturing issues and then the manufacturer and your insurance company no being on the hook for liability. This could have been resolved though.

What about one regent in a captains chair, one regent in the middle back, newborn in the other captains chair and Radian rear facing beside it? You might have to do seat belt installation on the Radain to get it to fit.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I had once heard concerns about adding unapproved tether anchors being an issue in terms of vehicle warranties and liability.

Specifically I heard about concerns related to the addition of tethers and their proximity to the fuel tank, rupturing issues and then the manufacturer and your insurance company no being on the hook for liability. This could have been resolved though.

No, it's still a very valid concern. Basically what you're doing is a custom retrofit, and that is definitely in the realm of "parental decision." There are risks involved either way, and it's up to the parent to decide which one they're willing to take.

When I looked into having it done, I made sure I fully understood the installation instructions, then took them to my local body shop (who had previously worked on our other vehicle.) They looked over my vehicle and determined what would need to be done in order to get the TAs installed (and it was the same conclusion I'd come to) and we discussed liability issues. They went and got the owner, who said he was not concerned about liability issues because they often installed aftermarket products in vehicles for customers (vehicle seats, spoilers, etc) and this fell under the same category and was covered in the release forms.

The first place I recommend contacting is a shop that customizes vans for the handicapped. They will have the most experience with this sort of thing! If there's no one around you that does that kind of work, then ask around at body shops.
 

Nennib

New member
and we discussed liability issues. They went and got the owner, who said he was not concerned about liability issues because they often installed aftermarket products in vehicles for customers (vehicle seats, spoilers, etc) and this fell under the same category and was covered in the release forms.

I was thinking more about Nissan refusing to be liable for anything and insurance refusing to cover the vehicle because it had been altered against manufacturers recommendation.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I was thinking more about Nissan refusing to be liable for anything and insurance refusing to cover the vehicle because it had been altered against manufacturers recommendation.

Well, like I said, that's why it falls into a "parental decision" category. But people modify their vehicles all the time in many different ways, and I'm honestly not sure how/if that affects their vehicle warranties. I don't know if Nissan would (or could) refuse to honor a bumper-to-bumper warranty just because of two tether anchors, or if it would only apply to the new tether anchors.

Do you know if people who are handicapped who buy vans and have them converted for wheelchair use invalidate their warranties?
 

jec2b

New member
I appreciate all the replies and suggestions. I'm trying to look to the future a bit...my little one only has another year to be RF, then he too will require a top tether anchor to be FF. Keeping my kids in a 5 point harness in a seat with a top tether for as long as possible is a requirement for us. My older ones will be in the Regents to 80 lbs, which at their current rate of growth would be another 6 years. Yes, in the short term, I could put the 11 month old in the back with one of the Regents, and the newborn in a captain's chair. But like I said, within a year he will need to be turned around (he's already 30 lbs, his seat goes RF to 35lb). So I'm back to really needing more than one top tether in the back.

I will look into having the van retro fitted...does anyone know of another vehicle that has 6 top tethers available?
 

Pixels

New member
Unfortunately with a car that's already had tethers and LATCH done at the factory you can't add any more. :( So you're stuck with what you have.

Why do you need to do three across the back? You can try the Radian rear facing between the two Regents, that may work. May not. And that's only good if the oldest two are under 40 pounds. The Regents need to be top tethered after 40 pounds with the lap and shoulder belt, though, so if Josh and Matt are approaching 40 pounds or over it they each need a tether. So they'd have to go in the captain's chairs, or one in a captain's chair and one in the center in the back. Maybe the Radian goes rear facing outboard, the Regent in the middle, the baby and another Regent in the captain's chairs.

Wendy
It's 50 pounds, not 40, that the Regents need to be top tethered at. Of course, top tethering is always better. It's just not required under 50 pounds in the US.

I appreciate all the replies and suggestions. I'm trying to look to the future a bit...my little one only has another year to be RF, then he too will require a top tether anchor to be FF. Keeping my kids in a 5 point harness in a seat with a top tether for as long as possible is a requirement for us. My older ones will be in the Regents to 80 lbs, which at their current rate of growth would be another 6 years. Yes, in the short term, I could put the 11 month old in the back with one of the Regents, and the newborn in a captain's chair. But like I said, within a year he will need to be turned around (he's already 30 lbs, his seat goes RF to 35lb). So I'm back to really needing more than one top tether in the back.

I will look into having the van retro fitted...does anyone know of another vehicle that has 6 top tethers available?

6 top tethers, no, not that I know of. You have 3 children now and one on the way ... are you thinking about future family expansion? I took a look at the Mazda5 the other day. Top tethers for all four rear seating locations, and I could install my Radian in any of the rear seating positions, FFing or RFing. The second row was quite possibly the easiest FFing seatbelt install I have done with the RN. Third row, all I had to do was twist the female belt stalk one full turn.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I took a look at the Mazda5 the other day. Top tethers for all four rear seating locations, and I could install my Radian in any of the rear seating positions, FFing or RFing. The second row was quite possibly the easiest FFing seatbelt install I have done with the RN. Third row, all I had to do was twist the female belt stalk one full turn.

The Mazda 5 has no cargo space, though - no room to store strollers & such.

There are a couple of older vans that came with every rear seat equipped with TAs, but no newer ones. I think the Windstar and one year of the Town & Country had 5 TAs in the rear (plus the Windstar had one for the passenger seat)? I'm not sure what years, though. I suppose I could always check the LATCH manual... Yeah, the Windstar from '99-'03 had them. Ah, and the '01 T&C. Wow, I can't believe I actually remembered those correctly! There might be more, of course.

BTW, the Radian is incompatible FF in the third row of the Mazda 5. I'm guessing you missed it, though, because while you can get it in quite firmly when tested side-to-side, the base slips right out when you test front-to-back. You're right that the 2nd row is just dreamy for Radian installs, though - and every other carseat I've ever tried in it! :D
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
It's 50 pounds, not 40, that the Regents need to be top tethered at. Of course, top tethering is always better. It's just not required under 50 pounds in the US.

It IS required with lap and shoulder belt for short belt path, and the SBP is required at 40 pounds, and she's installing with the seatbelts now, so for HER it's required at 40 pounds. The new installation instructions mean that there are few ways over 40 pounds that the top tether is NOT required. It's required for all LATCH installations (please don't start about how it's really not, Britax says it is), it's required for the SBP lap and shoulder belt, it's required after 50 pounds.

As for six tethers, I believe if you get a Chrysler T&C and buy a second third row and put that in the second row (which is ok, I have a friend who has done it, but please contact Chrysler to confirm) you can get two sets of center offset LATCH and six tether anchors for all rear seating positions. Otherwise the best you can do is five tether anchors in the back.

Your other option is to look at more Radians. Sunshine Kids actually releases their crash test data and they do quite well without tethers. They do better without tethers than is required by law WITH tethers. So if you can't replace your van that may be an option, to stock up on Radians. Another option would be a Ride Safer Travel Vest. I find it a pain to use daily, but they also release their numbers and with a lap and shoulder belt a top tether is not required. And their numbers are ASTONISHING. I use a tether when available, but I don't sweat it in the least when one is not.

Wendy
 

Nennib

New member
My older ones will be in the Regents to 80 lbs, which at their current rate of growth would be another 6 years. Yes, in the short term, I could put the 11 month old in the back with one of the Regents, and the newborn in a captain's chair. But like I said, within a year he will need to be turned around (he's already 30 lbs, his seat goes RF to 35lb). So I'm back to really needing more than one top tether in the back.

Well, what about moving your now 11 month old (when he needs to go forward facing) up to the other captain chair and moving the new baby rear facing back where the toddler was? That would give you likely 2.5 years before you would need tethering for all 4 children (if new baby stays rear facing for 2 years). Or 2 younger in the back row (Radian in the middle forward facing and new baby outboard rear facing) the 2 Regents in the captain chairs???
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
My older ones will be in the Regents to 80 lbs, which at their current rate of growth would be another 6 years.

Keep in mind that forward facing a seat is outgrown when the shoulders go over the top slot, when the tips of the ears go over the shell of the seat, or when the weight limit is reached. Whichever of these three comes first. So they may not be in the seats to 80 pounds. Also, the seats expire six years from the date they were made, so the seats may expire before the boys outgrow them.

Wendy
 

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