Making kids safer, one question at a time.  Welcome to the Car-Seat.Org community!   Motor Vehicle Crashes are the #1 cause of fatal injury for children and adults, age groups 1 to 34.   Selecting a safe car, minivan or SUV, plus correctly using child restraints and seatbelts may be the most important things you can do to protect your family.   Need help installing an infant, convertible or booster seat?   Looking for carseat reviews or compatibility advice? Need help buying the best and safest car seats for your baby, toddler or older kid?   No question is a bad one, so please click here to ask our experts a question and then join our friendly community of moms, dads, caregivers and advocates in the USA and Canada.   Thank you for visiting; buckle-up and drive safely!


 

Sponsored Ads

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    Member mightymarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    SF bay area, California
    Posts
    28

    Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    I'm shopping for a convertible car seat for my 13mo and keep hearing about the special energy-absorbing foam that many seats have, but would like to see actual data about what it actually does in a crash. Anyone have links to stats or crash tests or anything that shows what the foam does or how much it helps in a crash?

    Thanks!

  2. # ADS
    Sponsored Ads
    Join Date
    April, 2001
    Location
    Car-Seat.Org
    Posts
    Many
     
     

  3. #2
    Unregistered1
    Guest

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    I don't have any crash test data (most of the time this is not released) but I am sold on EPS/EPP foam because of an article I read on here once, or maybe a study, I can't remember, I will try to find it. It was about a child who was in a crash in an Evenflo On My Way (an older infant bucket that didn't have EPS/EPP) and was killed - they said it was partly due to the child's head impacting the solid shell of the seat (and having had an On My Way, I wouldn't want my kid's head running into that at high speeds). Fortunately it's not hard to fine a seat with it, the only seats I'm aware of that don't have it on the market right now are the Cosco Scenera and the Cosco High Back Booster (actually a harnessed seat, but that's the name of it) and we rarely recommend the second one anyways because of some other issues with it.

  4. #3
    Guest
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,521

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Unfortunately, they don't test car seats for safety other than some bare minimum standard. Hence, the big hubbub over the Chicago Tribune article.

  5. #4
    Member mightymarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    SF bay area, California
    Posts
    28

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Ugh, this is so frustrating! How can there not be public information about this? Wouldn't it be so great to actually know how big a difference the foam makes, and how much is needed to make that difference? (for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera... would that make enough of a difference in a crash?)

    It just boggles the mind.

  6. #5
    Member mightymarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    SF bay area, California
    Posts
    28

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by codex57 View Post
    Unfortunately, they don't test car seats for safety other than some bare minimum standard. Hence, the big hubbub over the Chicago Tribune article.
    What's the Chicago Tribune article?

    And wouldn't you think the companies that make supposedly better/safer car seats (like Britax) would do their own testing to show how much better their seats are? *Sigh*

  7. #6
    Unregistered1
    Guest

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Here is an article about the case I was alluding to. If you search 'evenflo on my way' and 'lawsuit' you'll get lots of information about this case. Several factors were involved that lead to the death of this child but the EPS thing really stood out to me. And the fact that manufacturers have now almost all moved to using it also says something to me. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007..._587_26_07.txt

  8. #7
    Unregistered1
    Guest

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    What's the Chicago Tribune article?
    Go to the main forum index and look under articles and news releases, there's a big post about it that is probably at the top of the forum.

  9. #8
    CPS Advocate
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Invisible, but right behind you
    Posts
    9,820

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    Ugh, this is so frustrating! How can there not be public information about this? Wouldn't it be so great to actually know how big a difference the foam makes, and how much is needed to make that difference? (for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera... would that make enough of a difference in a crash?)

    It just boggles the mind.


    The Britax seats have a substantial amount of EPS foam, and the Scenera has....none

    While there may not be released crash statistics proving the effectiveness of EPS foam, it's intuitive that it's preferable to a bare plastic shell. It absorbs energy, reducing the transfer of the same energy to the skull and thus to the brain. (It's the same stuff that lines the inside of bike helmets). Think of it as an egg crate for your noggin

  10. #9
    Senior Community Member Evolily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,623

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    EPP and EPS are the same stuff they make helmets out of.

  11. #10
    Senior Community Member natysr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    1,828

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera
    The scenera doesn't have EPS or EPP foam at all, where as the britax seats (and most other seats on the market do).

    Technically, the Scenera is still a safe seat, but I personally like having a seat that has EPS or EPP foam.

    While there is no actual data available to us, the fact that the shell is lined with the same material as bicycle helmets, makes me sold on the concept and makes it worth it to me to spend the extra money.

    As far as padding difference that you are feeling in comparing the seats, that padding is purely for comfort, not for safety. So you need to decide for yourself where "comfort" lies on your priority list.

    If you are looking for a budget seat with ESP or EEP foam, you may want to look into the Safety First Uptown (new model slightly redesigned and renamed as the Avenue). Example of price on the Avenue would be $80 through K-Mart. Sometimes cheaper if on sale.

  12. #11
    Guest
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,521

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    And wouldn't you think the companies that make supposedly better/safer car seats (like Britax) would do their own testing to show how much better their seats are? *Sigh*
    Britax and Sunshine Kids do. But there's only so much they can say. Without some standard test that you can use to compare different seats to, a solo test isn't very helpful.

    Have you seen that link yet to the Tribune article? I say just use that. If they test cars at those speeds, might as well test car seats while they're at it. Don't use a lower speed. Who cares if most crashes are at a slightly lower speed. If it's already being tested at that speed, it should continue to do so. Going to a lower speed is like aiming for a D b/c it's passing instead of trying for an A.

  13. #12
    Member mightymarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    SF bay area, California
    Posts
    28

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by codex57 View Post
    Britax and Sunshine Kids do. But there's only so much they can say. Without some standard test that you can use to compare different seats to, a solo test isn't very helpful.

    Have you seen that link yet to the Tribune article? I say just use that. If they test cars at those speeds, might as well test car seats while they're at it. Don't use a lower speed. Who cares if most crashes are at a slightly lower speed. If it's already being tested at that speed, it should continue to do so. Going to a lower speed is like aiming for a D b/c it's passing instead of trying for an A.
    Do you know where Sunshine Kids and Britax might have that info available? I couldn't find anything on the Britax website today.

    Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right? How do I know that that little bit of foam will do anything significant? I guess I feel like if I'm gonna bite the bullet on buying a car seat with the energy-absorbing foam I'd go with something like the Boulevard that seems to have LOTS of it. Or am I understanding things wrong?

    BTW what does EPS and EPP stand for exactly? I'd like to do some searches on this stuff and searching for the acronyms hasn't turned up anything.

  14. #13
    Senior Community Member Irishmama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    1,042

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    The padding you can feel in the seat is just the cushy stuff to make it comfy for baby. The EPS foam is underneath the cover and feels harder to the touch. If you look under the cover you will see material that looks like styrofoam, that's the EPS they are talking about, that's what absorbs energy in a crash. The seat cover padding, that dd1 calls the "comfy heiny" foam, isn't a matter of safety but comfort. Hope that helps!

    I don't know what EPS and EPP stand for though; perhaps someone else here does. I never did do well in chemistry

    Happy shopping!

  15. #14
    Senior Community Member unityco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,156

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right?
    No, I don't think what you're referring to is the foam. The foam is actually quite hard to the touch - like others have said, it's the same stuff used in bike helmets. A bike helmet is not soft. You would find the foam by looking UNDER the cover. Seats with foam look like they're lined with Styrofoam (which is basically what the foam is.) Manufacturers tend to focus on covering the areas close to the child's head and may or may not line the rest of the seat with the foam.

    BTW what does EPS and EPP stand for exactly?
    EPS = Expanded Polystyrene, EPP = Expanded Polypropylene

    HTH!


  16. #15
    Admin - CPS Technician LISmama810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chicago-ish
    Posts
    12,178

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mightymarce View Post
    Do you know where Sunshine Kids and Britax might have that info available? I couldn't find anything on the Britax website today.

    Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right? How do I know that that little bit of foam will do anything significant? I guess I feel like if I'm gonna bite the bullet on buying a car seat with the energy-absorbing foam I'd go with something like the Boulevard that seems to have LOTS of it. Or am I understanding things wrong?
    Without knowing the exact baseline, and without knowing how other companies' seats rank, having the info from Sunshine Kids or Britax wouldn't really make a difference. I know there are some crash test videos out there, but they don't address the foam specifically.

    As for the foam, I think you're referring to the comfort foam (it's squishy). The EPP/EPS foam is like styrofoam. You'd have to peel back the cover to see it. It will feel hard, but it absorbs energy in a crash. Like PPs have said, it's the same stuff that's in a bike helmet.

    For the record, the Marathon actually has more EPS foam than the Boulevard, because the foam is really only needed around the head. Since the BV has an adjustable headrest, it only has the foam in the headwings, since those will always be around the kid's head. The Marathon has it throughout the seat to ensure that it's next to a kid's head no matter how big/small the kid is. While it certainly can't hurt to have the foam on other parts of the body, it's probably not necessary, either.

  17. #16
    CPS Technician christineka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    5,967

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    On the sunshine kids' website you go to products, select a seat, then on the side there is a link to test data or something like that.

    I think most seats only have the foam in the upper part of the seat, so as to protect the head. The radian has it all over. Not sure what other seats do as well.

  18. #17
    Member mightymarce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    SF bay area, California
    Posts
    28

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Wow, ok thanks. Is there any semi-easy place to actually find this info (as far as which seats have how much foam and where, etc)? It feels like it's really hard to get my hands on any of this information but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

    Quote Originally Posted by LISmama810 View Post
    Without knowing the exact baseline, and without knowing how other companies' seats rank, having the info from Sunshine Kids or Britax wouldn't really make a difference. I know there are some crash test videos out there, but they don't address the foam specifically.
    Well, I know something of what the minimum standards are (seats are tested in crashes at 45mph abouts, right?) and so to know for sure that any one particular car seat does well even above that is at least something to go on. It would also be helpful to compare seats within the same manufacturer that have different features, to see if one performs better than the other-- for example Britax's Marathon vs the Boulevard. How much of a difference does the "true" side protection make over their baseline side protection? Stuff like that.

  19. #18
    CPS Technician
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    SouthEast US
    Posts
    3,206

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    (for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera.
    You have to take the covers off to look at what actually is there. The Britax seats have a lot of EPS foam--it's white and fairly hard. It looks like styrofoam. The only thing under the cover of a Scenera is plastic. There's a huge difference.

    henrietta

  20. #19
    CPST and ketchup snob ketchupqueen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    L.A. area
    Posts
    20,423

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    Seats are crash-tested at 30 MPH, IIRC.
    CPST and Mom to Emma, 15, Bridget, 13, Maggie, 11, Katie Sue, 6, Jimmy, born May 2019,
    and Becky, waiting for us as part of our eternal family.
    Our '02 Odyssey, car seats, and seatbelts saved our lives. Now riding in a '13 Odyssey!

  21. #20
    Carseat Crazy
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    194

    Re: Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

    This can give an idea of foam placement:
    http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.p...ght=naked+seat
    DD 01/06, 44 lbs., 48", turbobooster ss or harnessed in nautilus, RFed to 32 months, and occasionally after
    DD 07/10, 22 lbs., 32", RF myride or truefit

    Loving all the glorious space in our 8 pass 2004 Sienna

Similar Threads

  1. DH and BIL want data
    By rodentranger in forum Carseat Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-27-2008, 11:45 AM
  2. Car Seat Data help please
    By firemomof3 in forum Carseat Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-15-2008, 02:15 PM
  3. FS: Arctic Cat Marathon, NIB MA modified foam, and new MA comfort foam
    By monzogary in forum Carseat Swap: Buy and Sell Used Child Safety Seats
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-28-2008, 07:08 PM
  4. Data Not Found??????
    By Jewels in forum Announcements, Guidelines and Feedback
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-09-2008, 11:22 AM
  5. Car Seat Data?
    By CRS in forum CAR SEATS - General Child Safety Seat Questions, Help and Advice
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-06-2007, 01:45 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •