Anyone have data on EPS/EPP foam?

mightymarce

New member
I'm shopping for a convertible car seat for my 13mo and keep hearing about the special energy-absorbing foam that many seats have, but would like to see actual data about what it actually does in a crash. Anyone have links to stats or crash tests or anything that shows what the foam does or how much it helps in a crash?

Thanks!
 
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Unregistered1

Guest
I don't have any crash test data (most of the time this is not released) but I am sold on EPS/EPP foam because of an article I read on here once, or maybe a study, I can't remember, I will try to find it. It was about a child who was in a crash in an Evenflo On My Way (an older infant bucket that didn't have EPS/EPP) and was killed - they said it was partly due to the child's head impacting the solid shell of the seat (and having had an On My Way, I wouldn't want my kid's head running into that at high speeds). Fortunately it's not hard to fine a seat with it, the only seats I'm aware of that don't have it on the market right now are the Cosco Scenera and the Cosco High Back Booster (actually a harnessed seat, but that's the name of it) and we rarely recommend the second one anyways because of some other issues with it.
 

Guest

New member
Unfortunately, they don't test car seats for safety other than some bare minimum standard. Hence, the big hubbub over the Chicago Tribune article.
 

mightymarce

New member
Ugh, this is so frustrating! How can there not be public information about this? Wouldn't it be so great to actually know how big a difference the foam makes, and how much is needed to make that difference? (for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera... would that make enough of a difference in a crash?)

It just boggles the mind.
 

mightymarce

New member
Unfortunately, they don't test car seats for safety other than some bare minimum standard. Hence, the big hubbub over the Chicago Tribune article.

What's the Chicago Tribune article?

And wouldn't you think the companies that make supposedly better/safer car seats (like Britax) would do their own testing to show how much better their seats are? *Sigh*
 

Maedze

New member
Ugh, this is so frustrating! How can there not be public information about this? Wouldn't it be so great to actually know how big a difference the foam makes, and how much is needed to make that difference? (for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera... would that make enough of a difference in a crash?)

It just boggles the mind.



The Britax seats have a substantial amount of EPS foam, and the Scenera has....none :confused:

While there may not be released crash statistics proving the effectiveness of EPS foam, it's intuitive that it's preferable to a bare plastic shell. It absorbs energy, reducing the transfer of the same energy to the skull and thus to the brain. (It's the same stuff that lines the inside of bike helmets). Think of it as an egg crate for your noggin :cool:
 

natysr

New member
I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera

The scenera doesn't have EPS or EPP foam at all, where as the britax seats (and most other seats on the market do).

Technically, the Scenera is still a safe seat, but I personally like having a seat that has EPS or EPP foam.

While there is no actual data available to us, the fact that the shell is lined with the same material as bicycle helmets, makes me sold on the concept and makes it worth it to me to spend the extra money.

As far as padding difference that you are feeling in comparing the seats, that padding is purely for comfort, not for safety. So you need to decide for yourself where "comfort" lies on your priority list.

If you are looking for a budget seat with ESP or EEP foam, you may want to look into the Safety First Uptown (new model slightly redesigned and renamed as the Avenue). Example of price on the Avenue would be $80 through K-Mart. Sometimes cheaper if on sale.
 

Guest

New member
And wouldn't you think the companies that make supposedly better/safer car seats (like Britax) would do their own testing to show how much better their seats are? *Sigh*

Britax and Sunshine Kids do. But there's only so much they can say. Without some standard test that you can use to compare different seats to, a solo test isn't very helpful.

Have you seen that link yet to the Tribune article? I say just use that. If they test cars at those speeds, might as well test car seats while they're at it. Don't use a lower speed. Who cares if most crashes are at a slightly lower speed. If it's already being tested at that speed, it should continue to do so. Going to a lower speed is like aiming for a D b/c it's passing instead of trying for an A.
 

mightymarce

New member
Britax and Sunshine Kids do. But there's only so much they can say. Without some standard test that you can use to compare different seats to, a solo test isn't very helpful.

Have you seen that link yet to the Tribune article? I say just use that. If they test cars at those speeds, might as well test car seats while they're at it. Don't use a lower speed. Who cares if most crashes are at a slightly lower speed. If it's already being tested at that speed, it should continue to do so. Going to a lower speed is like aiming for a D b/c it's passing instead of trying for an A.

Do you know where Sunshine Kids and Britax might have that info available? I couldn't find anything on the Britax website today.

Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right? How do I know that that little bit of foam will do anything significant? I guess I feel like if I'm gonna bite the bullet on buying a car seat with the energy-absorbing foam I'd go with something like the Boulevard that seems to have LOTS of it. Or am I understanding things wrong?

BTW what does EPS and EPP stand for exactly? I'd like to do some searches on this stuff and searching for the acronyms hasn't turned up anything.
 

Irishmama

New member
The padding you can feel in the seat is just the cushy stuff to make it comfy for baby. The EPS foam is underneath the cover and feels harder to the touch. If you look under the cover you will see material that looks like styrofoam, that's the EPS they are talking about, that's what absorbs energy in a crash. The seat cover padding, that dd1 calls the "comfy heiny" foam, isn't a matter of safety but comfort. Hope that helps!

I don't know what EPS and EPP stand for though; perhaps someone else here does. I never did do well in chemistry ;)

Happy shopping!
 

unityco

Ambassador - CPS Technician
Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right?

No, I don't think what you're referring to is the foam. The foam is actually quite hard to the touch - like others have said, it's the same stuff used in bike helmets. A bike helmet is not soft. You would find the foam by looking UNDER the cover. Seats with foam look like they're lined with Styrofoam (which is basically what the foam is.) Manufacturers tend to focus on covering the areas close to the child's head and may or may not line the rest of the seat with the foam.

BTW what does EPS and EPP stand for exactly?

EPS = Expanded Polystyrene, EPP = Expanded Polypropylene

HTH! :)
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Do you know where Sunshine Kids and Britax might have that info available? I couldn't find anything on the Britax website today.

Maybe I just don't get it about the foam. I felt the Britax Roundabout and Marathon in the store and each felt like they had about a half inch of any padding around the base. I assume this is the EPS/EPP foam, right? How do I know that that little bit of foam will do anything significant? I guess I feel like if I'm gonna bite the bullet on buying a car seat with the energy-absorbing foam I'd go with something like the Boulevard that seems to have LOTS of it. Or am I understanding things wrong?

Without knowing the exact baseline, and without knowing how other companies' seats rank, having the info from Sunshine Kids or Britax wouldn't really make a difference. I know there are some crash test videos out there, but they don't address the foam specifically.

As for the foam, I think you're referring to the comfort foam (it's squishy). The EPP/EPS foam is like styrofoam. You'd have to peel back the cover to see it. It will feel hard, but it absorbs energy in a crash. Like PPs have said, it's the same stuff that's in a bike helmet.

For the record, the Marathon actually has more EPS foam than the Boulevard, because the foam is really only needed around the head. Since the BV has an adjustable headrest, it only has the foam in the headwings, since those will always be around the kid's head. The Marathon has it throughout the seat to ensure that it's next to a kid's head no matter how big/small the kid is. While it certainly can't hurt to have the foam on other parts of the body, it's probably not necessary, either.
 

christineka

New member
On the sunshine kids' website you go to products, select a seat, then on the side there is a link to test data or something like that.

I think most seats only have the foam in the upper part of the seat, so as to protect the head. The radian has it all over. Not sure what other seats do as well.
 

mightymarce

New member
Wow, ok thanks. Is there any semi-easy place to actually find this info (as far as which seats have how much foam and where, etc)? It feels like it's really hard to get my hands on any of this information but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

Without knowing the exact baseline, and without knowing how other companies' seats rank, having the info from Sunshine Kids or Britax wouldn't really make a difference. I know there are some crash test videos out there, but they don't address the foam specifically.

Well, I know something of what the minimum standards are (seats are tested in crashes at 45mph abouts, right?) and so to know for sure that any one particular car seat does well even above that is at least something to go on. It would also be helpful to compare seats within the same manufacturer that have different features, to see if one performs better than the other-- for example Britax's Marathon vs the Boulevard. How much of a difference does the "true" side protection make over their baseline side protection? Stuff like that.
 

henrietta

Well-known member
(for example, I was comparing the Scenera vs Britax Roundabout and Marathons, and the Britax seats honestly felt like they had very little more padding than the Scenera.

You have to take the covers off to look at what actually is there. The Britax seats have a lot of EPS foam--it's white and fairly hard. It looks like styrofoam. The only thing under the cover of a Scenera is plastic. There's a huge difference.

henrietta
 

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