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  1. #1
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Doe ANYONE out there have any experience flying with LOT Polish Airlines? Any access to someone who has flown with kids with LOT or maybe is a FA with LOT, and would have access to their manual or know what the tend to enforce?

    Their website does not mention car seats, and calling the Canadian number yielded an automated message to call a different number, which routed my call to Poland, where I think I royally pissed on some dude's cornflakes.

    He told me that I can bring a seat for the "infant" almost 2-year old, but not the 4 year old, and that that, somehow, should be evident from this:
    http://www.lot.com/Portal/EN/aspx/Co..._Luggage.aspx#
    NON-REGISTERED BAGGAGE CARRIED ON BOARD
    In addition to the registered baggage limit, the passenger is entitled to carry cabin baggage under his or her custody.

    quantity
    weight
    weight
    maximum dimensions
    maximum dimensions
    business class
    2 pieces
    9 kg
    20 lb
    115 cm (55x40x20)
    46 in (18x14x8)
    economy class
    1 piece
    6 kg
    13 lb
    115 cm (55x40x20)
    46 in (18x14x8)


    In addition, the following can be carried by the passenger as cabin baggage included in ticket price:

    • small handbag;
    • coat, cloak or blanket;
    • umbrella or walking stick;
    • camera or binoculars;
    • a pair of crutches or a fully collapsible wheelchair (if necessary during the journey);*
    • baby food and collapsible pram/pushchair (if necessary during the journey).*

    There are additional registered baggage allowance for Miles & More members.
    * (by the way the asterisks don't seem to point to anything, making me think some possibly important information should have been there but wasn't included)

    I asked for something in writing that would say I was allowed to use a seat for my younger son, maybe a policy he could fax me. He told me to hold (he did this repeatedly during the call, and I could just barely hear him headedly discussing something with a lady somewhere near the phone). No he says, that's the policy but he doesn't have anything to give me in writing.

    He said a few times that it should be on the website, and when I said, no, it isn't, I have looked several times, that is when he looked himself and pointed out the quoted section above. When I protested that the website says nothing about car seats, just a stroller, he insisted that that is nonetheless what it means, and that it is the policy.

    He seemed to be saying that the carseat/stroller count as extra carry on baggage. When I said, ok, so if I am allowed to use a seat for the almost-2yo I should be able to use the seat for the 4yo because IT IS THE SAME SEAT. He says, no, because the 4yo is only allowed 1 pc of carryon.

    So I said, ok, if the carseat will fit within the carryon dimesions allowed and he doesn't bring any other piece of carryon, he can use the seat? (I hadn't looked at the dimensions allowed and thought maybe the folded Radian would somehow be within the size.) No, only the infant is allowed to have a carseat. I say, why, it's the same seat and he would have it as his carryon. After a bit of a pause he says, it would be up to the people doing the check in, you might have to check the seat. (I think he really just wanted to get rid of me at this point.)

    Me: Do you think I would have more luck trying the contact number for the office in Poland? "You HAVE the office in Poland."

    I then asked about the dimensions of the seats in Economy class on the 767. I said they list the dimesnions of the business class and the dimensions of the seats on their other planes, but nothing about the economy class on the 767.
    http://www.lot.com/Portal/EN/aspx/Co...airplanes.aspx
    In a rather strained tone, he informed me that no, they do NOT have that information, that no one ever asks them that information. Can I help you with anything else? *grit teeth*

    I say, great, so would you be ale to tell me whether I can use a safety harness in place of the carseat for the 4yo? *grit teeth again* "We don't have that information." Me: Ok then, thanks so much, bye.



    It now looks like this is 99% for sure the airline we will be flying with, in a codeshare flight with AirCanada. I would love to know what I am dealing with. I do not want to arrive at the gate and be told that I can't install seats for either of the boys. I am (I think understandably) worried that even if I only bring a seat for the "infant" that I might be told he is too big for a carseat and I need to check it. And ideally I want to bring both seats on board. But if I need to check one or both, then I would really like to be prepared for that ahead of time!!!!!

    ETA and notice that the Radian does not fit the carry on dimensions, even folded up. So I don't think I can do the "take a chance on helpful FAs" trick.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

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  3. #2
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Really? No one loves me? *pout* I need some there there's and some poor baby's!
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  4. #3
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    oh my chicky!
    POOR CAT
    Everything will work out... just keep hounding them until you get the answer you need... call air canada if its a shared what ever flight, they should know the answer.. screw the polish guy.. or pee in his cornflakes again, either way...

    call me

  5. #4
    CPS Technician Loves2sing's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Take both the seats. I would. I have never had a FA say anything to me about bring my dd's seat. I had a airline employee tell me that I couldn't take her seat on board and I informed him otherwise. The FA nearby backed me up. If you appear to know what you are talking about, they will take you more seriously. (The FA, obviously not the dim-wit on the phone.)

    The worst case scenario would be that you would have to gate check the seat which would be the best case for checking it, as it is only ever man-handled, and it is the last thing on, and the first thing off the plane.

    (HUGS!) Talk about frustrating. I feel your pain!
    Amanda- CRST & Mom
    J-08/01/05 & M-09/14/08

  6. #5
    Carseat Crazy finn's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    If it was me I wouldn't stress about a seat for your 4 year old, but i know its important to you, so I would just walk in with both car seats, be really confident, like you couldn't possibly imagine why they wouldn't let you take the seats on.

    If it is an Air Canada code share could you go by the Air Canada rules? Although we went on an Air Canada flight and they didn't even give us the extra strap for ds, they said he would be safe enough with us holding him!
    Chrissy Mum to : Ds Isaac(6) & dd Annabelle(2)

  7. #6
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    I'm not actually stressed about the seat for the 4yo, as fas as that goes it's more the principle of the matter. Also, since there is no actual written proof that I can take a seat for the <2yo, I am a bit worried about that. He is VERY active and also I would very much like for him to be comfortable sleeping. It's a 14 hr flight! I will hopefully have the 2 CARES harnesses available and then I will probably pack my Radians, as much as I do NOT want to do this.

    I may actually feel better about packing them in my suitcases well padded with clothes than I would gate checking them "unprotected" because they don't seem like they need to be treated with care and might be manhandled a bit, KWIM? I don't much like either option. Alternately, I could bring 2 Radians or a Radian and a Scenera and take my chances on being able to install or gate check. I SO don't want any extra trouble though, this trip will be tiring enough without having to have discussions with flight staff, especially since my DH is going and he is not a patient person when it comes to this stuff.

    Where were you going on your AC flight? I believe in Canada we are not allowed loop belts for kids (I assume this is what you mean by the "extra strap") as the stance here is that it puts the child at risk of being crushed. I do seem to remember reading something recently that seemed to say that CA-UK codeshares could adopt the rules that a codeshare flight operating by a Canadian airline originating outside of Canada could allow loop belts. Or something. Now I need to go dig that up.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  8. #7
    CPS Technician capeKO71's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    I think in general, if they are out of the US, we have found they do not allow car seats... or it's at least not written in that they have to let you use one.
    (makes NO sense to me... what would they rather want... a crazy squirmy child or a child happily in their seat...)

    Maybe look into the harnesses?
    Kate - Mom to 2 boys! - CPST

    It's off! Yipee!

  9. #8
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by capeKO71 View Post
    I think in general, if they are out of the US, we have found they do not allow car seats... or it's at least not written in that they have to let you use one.
    (makes NO sense to me... what would they rather want... a crazy squirmy child or a child happily in their seat...)

    Maybe look into the harnesses?
    You have flown with them before? Or work in the industry? I have definitely out myself on the list for the harnesses (though I suppose they are within their rights to refuse those too). I still would like to bring my seats though. I will need to decide before September! :lol:
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  10. #9
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by mommycat View Post
    Where were you going on your AC flight? I believe in Canada we are not allowed loop belts for kids (I assume this is what you mean by the "extra strap") as the stance here is that it puts the child at risk of being crushed. I do seem to remember reading something recently that seemed to say that CA-UK codeshares could adopt the rules that a codeshare flight operating by a Canadian airline originating outside of Canada could allow loop belts. Or something. Now I need to go dig that up.
    I had posted it here:
    http://www.car-seat.org/showpost.php...56&postcount=5

    I guess it was chartering, not codesharing - is there a difference? I think there is.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  11. #10
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Noting this so I can find it again and read it later:
    http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/LOT...es/infants.php
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  12. #11
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Ok, this might be my ticket to this, if I am reading it right. Especially page 145.
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0238:EN:PDF

    ETA this may be only a draft? but it certainly looks official enough and raises valid points, so maybe it would help convince a FA to allow the seats.

    Further info, and I am reading more to see what the actual legislation is *currently*:
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdo...8/728478en.pdf
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...75&language=EN
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...ng=O-2008-0075
    Last edited by mommycat; 03-05-2009 at 12:28 PM.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  13. #12
    Carseat Crazy finn's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    It was the loop belt, the flight was from San Francisco to Vancouver, thankfully dh & I both slept the whole way
    Chrissy Mum to : Ds Isaac(6) & dd Annabelle(2)

  14. #13
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    http://www.expats.cz/prague/showthread.php?t=186818
    CD2005
    Member: #15865
    11-06-08, 01:09 PM

    Below is the reply I received from EUROPEAN AVIATION SAFETY AGENCY (EASA). Not much help finding a car seat though. The ones they listed aren't sold here or they are for smaller babies.

    If anyone comes across an FAA approved car seat or one that says it's approved for air travel please let me know. I really think it's so much safer do have a baby in a car seat on a plane. In severe turbulense or a rough landing a parents arms can not secure the baby. Many babies have been severerly injured or have even died.

    "To answer your question directly, unfortunately there is currently no European list of car child seats (in aviation called Child Restraint Systems (CRS) or Child Restraint Devices (CRD )) approved for use in aircraft that would guarantee their acceptance across Europe on board of any EU aircraft operated by any EU air operator (not speaking about the World). There are two principle reasons for this :



    1) The aviation approvals of CRS/CRD has been up to now regulated nationally.

    The evaluation which car seats are suitable for use in aircraft and their possible limitations to aircraft of a particular air operator has been until now subject to (potentially different) requirements and approval processes of individual EU Members States and their National Aviation Authorities. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has only recently received rulemaking competency in the field of air operations and is in process to define common EU operational requirements including the ones for CRS/CRD. It will take however time to develop such standards.



    2) Compatibility with the aircraft seat

    There are many different types of aircraft seats and many different types of car seats. This creates huge interoperability and compatibility problems. Even if we have a common European standard to approve CRS/CRD for use in aircraft, a particular car child seat approved to this standard may not be fully compatible with all the aircraft seats used in all aircraft.



    For the above reasons the air travellers flying across Europe and the World face problems when bringing their car child seats, often unable to satisfy all the different national requirements leading to different air operators’ policies for acceptance of car child seats on board. These practical “logistical” problems are also a contributing factor to the fact that the use of CRS/CRD has not been made mandatory so far in any country in the World. EASA is working on a solution to this problem, at least for EU countries.



    Until then, to raise the chances that your car seat is accepted on board in EU, it would be advisable to buy a car seat not only approved for cars (the UN STANDARDS ECE R44-03 or 44-04 is applicable in EU) but also for aircraft, at least in one EU country. In such case and depending on national requirements the seat has a label like “For use in aircraft” or similar. This label granted by a national certifying authority is recognition that such car seat meets the applicable national aviation requirements. The final check should always be prior to the flight with the airline you plan to use. Ask them about their policy for CRS/CRD and types of CRS/CRD they accept on board.



    To give you at least some idea about potential candidates for a car child seat with better chances on board of aircraft please follow the below link to a German certifying authority TÜV Rheinland. This authority in co-operation with the German aviation authority approved several car seats for use in aircraft. The child seats approved by TÜV are also accepted by operators in some other EU countries:



    http://www.tuvdotcom.com/pi/web/sea...traint+Syst em



    Note please on the website that TÜV limits validity of the approval to certain air operators for aircraft of which it has checked and can guarantee the car seat performance and compatibility.





    Do not hesitate to contact me if you need further help.



    Best regards



    Jan Novák

    RULEMAKING DIRECTORATE

    Initial Airworthiness Rulemaking Officer







    EUROPEAN AVIATION SAFETY AGENCY (EASA)

    Postfach 10 12 53

    D-50452 Köln Germany

    Visiting address: Ottoplatz 1, 50679 Köln (Deutz)

    Tel.: +49 221 89990 5015
    Fax: +49 221 89990 5515
    Email: jan.novak.@easa.europa.eu

    Web: www.easa.europa.eu"
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  15. #14
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    I sometimes lurk on a forum for folks who take airline travel extremely serious, and they have a travel with children board here. It may be worth trying searching it for LOT airlines ...

  16. #15
    Senior Community Member InternationalMama's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Hi,

    I'm new here, but I think I might have some tips that will help you. First, to figure out whose car seat regulations you are going to be subject to on your flights you will have to figure out who is operating the flight(s). Here is how Air Canada explains how to do this on their website:

    "Code sharing refers to a practice through which a flight operated by one airline is jointly marketed as a flight by one or more other airlines. Air Canada, through its codeshare partnerships, places its designator code (AC) on flights operated by the codeshare partners, which allows us to provide you with worldwide services through an extensive network of convenient flight connections.

    You can tell that a flight is operated by a codeshare partner by looking for the "Operated by" note appearing after each codeshare flight when you are selecting flights for purchase on aircanada.com. Your electronic itinerary/receipt also provides the name of the operating carrier of each flight.

    Because each airline has its own terms and conditions of carriage, whenever you are travelling on a flight operated by one of Air Canada's codeshare partners, you may be subject to terms and conditions that differ from those of Air Canada."

    Are your flights "operated by" LOT? All of them or just some of them? This is the crucial point for figuring our whose regulations you are subject to.

    Second, I was recently looking into these issues myself and I found this:

    http://www.lba.de/nn_311258/DE/Oeffe...ndersitze.html

    Okay, it's in German, but I think what it says is that as of January 18th, 2008 there is some kind of EU regulation that you can use car seats approved for use in aircraft by a multitude of governing organizations, including the FAA or the Canadian equivalent (scroll down) when flying on European airlines. From what I can tell not all airlines in Europe are following this advice. (They say at the bottom you have to talk to your airline specifically about their regulations.) Also the document only addresses children under 2.

    But nevertheless, I thought it might be of some help or at least interest to you. Maybe this is where the Polish customer service person got the idea that your almost 2 year old son could use the seat, but not your 4 year old?

    ETA: It sounds like the Polish service rep was looking at the Polish version of the website and that the information you needed had not been translated into English. Probably where it said pram/pushchair in English it also said or implied "car seat if allowed for the journey" in Polish.

  17. #16
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    I don't think you'll get a straight answer before you fly, and even if you did, the FA on your flight could have a very different answer.

    Airlines based in other countries have their own rules, and it's not common to see kids in car seats. So people don't know about the rules if they have them. I think you might be at the mercy of the flight crew on that day.

    I would go with your car seats to the gate, just act confident and take them on the plane. Hopefully, you will be able to take both seats on board. If not, you'll have to gate check them. I agree, I prefer a car seat for my 4 yo DS too. As for the CARES harness, I bet no overseas FA has seen one. I tried to use one on an American international flight about 6 months after they were released, and I wasn't allowed to use it for take off or landing. I showed them all the documentation, and they did not budge. So, we had it unharnessed, and did the harness up as soon as wheels were up. The FA were sitting away from us, so didn't see when we actually did it up. Now though, I wouldn't have a problem as the harness has been out for longer and more people are familiar with them.

    Oh, and the age limits, that's pretty common. Virgin Atlantic allows use of their car seat - they have special seats for kids under 2 yo. Air NZ says on their web site that car seats can be only for kids under 2 yo. QANTAS allows car seats until 5 yo and not after that. It sucks that you have a limitation place on use of car seat, but it's their plane and their rules. Stupid rules I think.

  18. #17
    Senior Community Member USmominOz's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by niccig View Post
    I don't think you'll get a straight answer before you fly, and even if you did, the FA on your flight could have a very different answer.

    Airlines based in other countries have their own rules, and it's not common to see kids in car seats. So people don't know about the rules if they have them. I think you might be at the mercy of the flight crew on that day.

    I would go with your car seats to the gate, just act confident and take them on the plane. Hopefully, you will be able to take both seats on board. If not, you'll have to gate check them. I agree, I prefer a car seat for my 4 yo DS too. As for the CARES harness, I bet no overseas FA has seen one. I tried to use one on an American international flight about 6 months after they were released, and I wasn't allowed to use it for take off or landing. I showed them all the documentation, and they did not budge. So, we had it unharnessed, and did the harness up as soon as wheels were up. The FA were sitting away from us, so didn't see when we actually did it up. Now though, I wouldn't have a problem as the harness has been out for longer and more people are familiar with them.

    Oh, and the age limits, that's pretty common. Virgin Atlantic allows use of their car seat - they have special seats for kids under 2 yo. Air NZ says on their web site that car seats can be only for kids under 2 yo. QANTAS allows car seats until 5 yo and not after that. It sucks that you have a limitation place on use of car seat, but it's their plane and their rules. Stupid rules I think.
    Actually Qantas does let you use your car seat for older children, you just have to call the airlines a week before you travel to give them your car seat details for pre approval. I just went through this when I traveled home to the states for x-mas. This was the first time I was not hassled w/ Qantas about using my car seat.
    Karleen
    Kinsey - 5/3/00 - Compass B510 Daisy/Graco HBB, Bryan - 9/9/03 - Britax Regent/Graco Nautilus




  19. #18
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Neatfreak View Post
    I sometimes lurk on a forum for folks who take airline travel extremely serious, and they have a travel with children board here. It may be worth trying searching it for LOT airlines ...
    Thanks Laura. I didn't find anything on LOT but that looks like a good resource in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by InternationalMama View Post
    Are your flights "operated by" LOT? All of them or just some of them? This is the crucial point for figuring our whose regulations you are subject to.
    ...
    Second, I was recently looking into these issues myself and I found this:

    http://www.lba.de/nn_311258/DE/Oeffe...ndersitze.html
    ...
    But nevertheless, I thought it might be of some help or at least interest to you. Maybe this is where the Polish customer service person got the idea that your almost 2 year old son could use the seat, but not your 4 year old?

    ETA: It sounds like the Polish service rep was looking at the Polish version of the website and that the information you needed had not been translated into English. Probably where it said pram/pushchair in English it also said or implied "car seat if allowed for the journey" in Polish.
    My flights Halifax-Toronto are AC only, but both of the trans-atlantic flights are codeshares operated by LOT. So, the large part of the journey will be under LOT rules. I will read the link, my brother knows some German so he can have a look at it for me. Thanks. As for the LOT website, that was a good thought but I checkes the Polish version of it and it is the exact same wording, nothing about car seats at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by niccig View Post
    I don't think you'll get a straight answer before you fly, and even if you did, the FA on your flight could have a very different answer.
    This is what I am expecting. I may or may not bring a seat for the 4yo - I think maybe he would be just fine in the CARES harness (maybe even MORE comfortable because you can't recline all that much FF in a carseat and less ability to shift around, too?) and I could bring his Radian, pre-packed properly and safely, in my luggage. I think you are right that I should just go on with whatever I choose in the end as if I was certain it was ok and proceed with it until told otherwise. I will either get lucky and have no one say anything, or will be able to convince the FA with whatever stuff I print out that it's ok. Especially since he will be under 2 the entire trip we should be ok.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  20. #19
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by InternationalMama View Post
    Second, I was recently looking into these issues myself and I found this:

    http://www.lba.de/nn_311258/DE/Oeffe...ndersitze.html

    Okay, it's in German, but I think what it says is that as of January 18th, 2008 there is some kind of EU regulation that you can use car seats approved for use in aircraft by a multitude of governing organizations, including the FAA or the Canadian equivalent (scroll down) when flying on European airlines. From what I can tell not all airlines in Europe are following this advice. (They say at the bottom you have to talk to your airline specifically about their regulations.) Also the document only addresses children under 2.
    Unfortunately it appears that this is only applicable to German airlines. The same EU regulations are in effect in PL but from some more digging it seems that they have not yet been fully implemented in PL and there is a time period for the changes to take effect, so they are still within their rights to stick to their un-updated policies.

    Here's a google translate version of the Polish Civil Aviation Office regarding EU Commission Regulation 859/2008.:
    http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  21. #20
    Senior Community Member InternationalMama's Avatar
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    Re: Airline Crap - Question + Bit of a Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by mommycat View Post
    Unfortunately it appears that this is only applicable to German airlines. The same EU regulations are in effect in PL but from some more digging it seems that they have not yet been fully implemented in PL and there is a time period for the changes to take effect, so they are still within their rights to stick to their un-updated policies.

    Here's a google translate version of the Polish Civil Aviation Office regarding EU Commission Regulation 859/2008.:
    http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
    Interesting!

    At least it's nice to know that things are moving in the right direction with European Airlines and car seat regulations. I'm already noticing an improvement with the low budget airlines over last year when it comes to allowing "infants" their own seat.

    I think your plan to bring one Radian and pack the other sounds good. Now to not-so-subtly get some info to my own lonely question no one wanted to answer: Will a Radian fit inside a suitcase? (I've never seen one.) Would you be worried about transporting it like this re: damage etc?

    I know! Not what your thread is about! But I thought I'd try.

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