Why no tether with a booster seat?

jherdrover80

New member
I know I still have a while before I need to booster my oldest who is almost 6, but still only 40-41lbs. But I've always wondered why my carseat manuals say to not use the tether when the carseat is in booster seat mode. To me, it would seem safer to be tethered. Is there any specific reason why? And would there be any harm to tether it anyways?
 
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canmom

New member
There are some boosters available that allow tethering and UAS in booster mode... I believe the Britax Frontier is one of them. I wouldn't do it unless the manufacturer says it's ok as we don't know why some say not to do so, therefore the outcome on those seats in a collision would be unpredictable :twocents:.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
The tether has no functional purpose from a crash perspective with a booster seat. When it comes to a booster seat, it is the seat belt performing the job of restraining the child. The booster's job is to allow the adult seat belt to fit the child properly.

The only advantage to having a top tethered booster seat is that it limits how much of a projectile it would be in a collision if it was unoccupied and not buckled in. Boosters should always be buckled when not occupied, so provided you're remembering to do that, there's no benefit from a crash test perspective of having a booster top tethered.

As to why it's not allowed, it's just a matter of that being how the manufacturer has directed the seat be used. Whether it's because tethering adversely affects the function of the booster, or because they just didn't test it that way there's no way to know... but at any rate there's no increased risk in using a booster that doesn't allow tethering vs. using one that does allow tethering.

What determines how well a booster protects the child is how well it allows the vehicle seat belt to fit. Any booster that is positioning the seatbelt so that it fits the child properly is going to protect a child in a collision.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I'd like to understand "why" or "why not" the last poster (and the manuals!) says "The tether has no functional purpose from a crash perspective with a booster seat." That is, I'd like to understand the basic physics, etc. -- on a level that a layman can understand!

As the last poster said, "As to why it's not allowed, it's just a matter of that being how the manufacturer has directed the seat be used. Whether it's because tethering adversely affects the function of the booster, or because they just didn't test it that way there's no way to know..." Again, I would really like to understand the reasoning behind all this!?

Thanks!
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'd like to understand "why" or "why not" the last poster (and the manuals!) says "The tether has no functional purpose from a crash perspective with a booster seat." That is, I'd like to understand the basic physics, etc. -- on a level that a layman can understand!

A booster only has 1 function - it positions the child so that the adult seatbelt fits correctly. From a protective standpoint, it's the seatbelt restraining the child - all the booster does is make sure that the seatbelt is low on the hips/across the upper thighs, and that the shoulder belt is positioned comfortably between the shoulder and the neck.

The booster is a positioning device basically. It's a very specifically designed positioning device, that can make the difference between life and death for a child restrained by the seatbelt, but that's it's only job.

In a ff'ing restraint the top tether reduces how far forward the top of the restraint and therefore the child's head moves in a collision. The child is restrained in the seat and for the purposes of explaining I'll just use the word "attached" to the seat. So preventing the carseat from moving forward too much also reduces how far forward the child moves. It's important because it reduces the likelihood of the child contacting the vehicle interior and thereby the risk of injury.

In a booster the child isn't restrained against the shell the same as in a harnessed seat, so holding back the top of the booster would make no difference in terms of the movement of the child - the child would continue to move forward until the seatbelt prevented further movement. So when I say it would have no functional purpose from a crash perspective, it's because preventing the booster seat from moving forward in a collision isn't going to reduce the movement that the child experiences in a collision - whether the booster stays still in the vehicle or whether it moves with the child during a collision, it's still the seatbelt that stops the movement of the child.

Hopefully that makes it a little easier to understand.

As the last poster said, "As to why it's not allowed, it's just a matter of that being how the manufacturer has directed the seat be used. Whether it's because tethering adversely affects the function of the booster, or because they just didn't test it that way there's no way to know..." Again, I would really like to understand the reasoning behind all this!?

Thanks!

I'm afraid I don't have a good explanation on the reasoning of why some manufacturers approve top tethers in booster mode and some don't. The best I can do is give you some background on the approval process and how manufacturers bring seats to market...

Transport Canada sets standards that all manufacturers must meet. Booster seats in Canada aren't required to be crash tested - they have to meet standards in terms of compression, materials used, labeling, and that kind of thing - the technical term is static testing. As long as they comply with all of those criteria, they can be sold in Canada. It's up to the manufacturer how they want to design the seat, and what instructions they send with the seat. The reason that boosters aren't crash tested in Canada is because the booster isn't restraining the child - the seatbelt is.

Now just because CMVSS standards don't require crash testing doesn't mean the carseat manufacturer doesn't do crash testing. Pretty much all boosters available in Canada are also available in the US, and FMVSS standards do require crash testing - which translates to the seats and designs that are in use in Canada still having gone through crash testing.

When a company designs a seat, they basically start with a blank sheet. They have standards that must be met, but it's up to them to determine what they want for the design and what features/components they want to include - as long as the seat meets standards. They may have research giving important points for what they want to include in the seat, but at one point it starts off as a design. Manufacturers do multiple crash tests during the design stage, and they base their instructions on the results of the crash tests and the design of the seat.

Specifically in regards to tethers, it could be that the company research says there's no benefit to top tethering a booster, so they don't test it. Or it could be that they crash tested it with the seat top tethered and the structural integrity of the seat was affected or some other thing. There's just no way to know without being able to sit down with the engineer of the seat and discuss the how's and why's.

So that's why I say it could be because it wasn't tested that way, or it could be because it failed in some manner when tested that way. The public doesn't know results, or the combinations that tests were run in, so it's just impossible to know the reason why the manufacturer doesn't allow it. When it comes down to it, we aren't always able to understand the reasoning a manufacturer has for a specific instruction, but we still have to follow it.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I am sorry but it just doesn't make sense to me that a booster should not be tethered in. I am not sure that i will trust a booster seat manufacturer let alone a seat belt to keep my child safe in an accident.
I also believe that a 3 point and even 5 point harness is safer than just the booster over the shoulder and waist seat seat belt.
I know the function of a booster seat is to lift the child in the seat to supply a correct fit of the seat belt to the waist of the child, but i also believe that the more points of harness will keep your child more safer than the normal "function of a booster".
If you watch Professional car raceing they all have a five point harness 'mandatory' and routinely walk a way from very horrific accidents; if not for the harness that kept them in they would not be around today.
I am sorry but i started to read your post and got very upset at how trusting you were with the manufacturers of the booster seats that ultimately keep yours and my children safe, I came to the conclusion that you must work for a manufacture of such saftey devices.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I am sorry but it just doesn't make sense to me that a booster should not be tethered in. I am not sure that i will trust a booster seat manufacturer let alone a seat belt to keep my child safe in an accident.
I also believe that a 3 point and even 5 point harness is safer than just the booster over the shoulder and waist seat seat belt.
I know the function of a booster seat is to lift the child in the seat to supply a correct fit of the seat belt to the waist of the child, but i also believe that the more points of harness will keep your child more safer than the normal "function of a booster".
If you watch Professional car raceing they all have a five point harness 'mandatory' and routinely walk a way from very horrific accidents; if not for the harness that kept them in they would not be around today.
I am sorry but i started to read your post and got very upset at how trusting you were with the manufacturers of the booster seats that ultimately keep yours and my children safe, I came to the conclusion that you must work for a manufacture of such saftey devices.

I'm a bit confused why you wouldn't trust a seatbelt to keep your child safe in a collision. :confused: For a young child, a harnessed seat is obviously preferred and you'll find that recommendation pretty much straight across the board here, but there comes a point where a child does not fit a harnessed seat anymore and HAS to move to a booster seat. A booster is not a restraint, it's a positioning device. Seatbelts are designed to restrain passengers, and they do a good job of that. Using a booster allows the adult seatbelt to fit a child who is out of a harnessed seat, but doesn't fit the seatbelt properly. They fill a very critical role in keeping children safe in vehicles and absolutely save lives and prevent and/or reduce injury.

A 3pt harness is not safe for a ff'ing child period. All ff'ing harnessed seats ever sold in Canada have been required to have 5pts of restraint - even t-shields and overhead shields are considered to be 5pts.

So far as trusting, we have no choice but to trust the manufacturers. Do you trust the manufacturer of your child's harnessed seat? Those same manufacturers are the ones who design, test, and dictate how to use boosters. How is it that you could trust them for one seat and not another?

Instruction manuals and how a manufacturer says to use a seat are all we have to go on. If you don't trust one manufacturer's directions, then it's always your option to go buy another seat if you can find one that you happen to agree with the installation instructions. We're not privy to test results and how a manufacturer tests their seats, and until that changes, the only choice is to trust that they know best. If you're not going to trust that and don't feel a seat should be used according to directions, I'd suggest you walk and eliminate the risk all together - because I can guarantee you your child will be more at risk if you choose to go against manufacturers directions than if you follow them.
 

hipmaman

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I am sorry but it just doesn't make sense to me that a booster should not be tethered in. I am not sure that i will trust a booster seat manufacturer let alone a seat belt to keep my child safe in an accident.

Hi, I would like to know more of your concern so we can help.

As Trudy said, the booster is only to provide proper positioning of the seatbelt across a child body. A booster attached by UAS, seatbelt and/or top tether (if allowed or safe to use as per manufacturer's instructions) is not going to do anything other than propping a child up properly so the seatbelt can be positioned across his/her body appropriately. It only helps to hold the booster in place when not in use and not become a fly-away object if not buckled in.

The seatbelt, in booster mode, is the only protection that is availble. Seatbelt is good for an adult and is good to protect a child.

I also believe that a 3 point and even 5 point harness is safer than just the booster over the shoulder and waist seat seat belt.

BUT it is also important to stress that a seatbelt is only effective if the child or adult sits properly, ie. not leaning, slouching, slumping, etc. So we do advocate that a child must be mature enough to understand that sitting in a booster properly is important.

If you have reservation about your child's ability to sit properly in a booster, then I would recommend a harness seat until he/she is ready and mature enough for a booster.

I know the function of a booster seat is to lift the child in the seat to supply a correct fit of the seat belt to the waist of the child, but i also believe that the more points of harness will keep your child more safer than the normal "function of a booster".
If you watch Professional car raceing they all have a five point harness 'mandatory' and routinely walk a way from very horrific accidents; if not for the harness that kept them in they would not be around today.

I think I started talking about harness and booster a bit above there.

I am sorry but i started to read your post and got very upset at how trusting you were with the manufacturers of the booster seats that ultimately keep yours and my children safe, I came to the conclusion that you must work for a manufacture of such saftey devices.

It's a lot to absorb and trust when it comes to the safety of our children. However, I just want to remind you that the manufacturers making booster seats are the very same ones that make harnessed carseats. If you can trust the ones making harnessed carseats, then why not booster? If you can trust the vehicle manufacturers to keep belted adults safe and harnessed carseats attached, then why not the seatbelt and booster for a child? Provided that it is used correctly, right?

We do not have to work for a CRS manufacturer to understand crash dynamics, safety requirements and conforming to safety standards, etc. That's why is required of carseat safety technicians and carseat safety instructors. It's also our job to inform and help parents of the choices available and choices that they might have to make for their children.

Please don't hesitate to ask more questions if you need to but don't think that everyone on c-s.org who says so-and-so seat or booster is good because they work for such company. We do what we can to help - on our own volunteer time.
 

sparkyd

Active member
If you watch Professional car raceing they all have a five point harness 'mandatory' and routinely walk a way from very horrific accidents; if not for the harness that kept them in they would not be around today.

Just thought I'd mention that I do watch professsional car racing and there is a lot more to drivers "walking away" from bad accidents than just a 5-point harness. They also wear special devices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_device) that attach to their helmets to prevent major whiplash and brain injury. In addition, the design of the cars themselves and the safety measures in place around the tracks have a hec of a lot to do with minimizing injury to the drivers. Driver safey goes way beyond a seatbelt. And I think (but I'm not positive) that race car harnesses are actually 6-point, and I've heard of 7 and 9-point ones. I have no idea what that would look like, but they're out there.

The whole concept of the Hans Device (linked above - prevents excessive head movement when the body is tightly strapped to the seat) speaks directly to why some people feel that using a 5-point harness beyond around 65 lbs can actually be counter-productive as compared to a booster with a seat belt, particularly when a properly used booster is perfectly safe. But that has been debated elsewhere on this board...
 

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