Scenera and ff'ing recline

snowbird25ca · Feb 3, 2009

Can some of you in the US check your Scenera manuals for me? I know I've heard mentioned around here that Cosco allows you to use the Scenera ff'ing in the recline mode, but I've never heard anything added to that...

I read a Scenera manual the other night, and it would've been updated in December of 08, so it's a recent update... the manual clearly states in the ff'ing installation section that the recline installation is only to be used if needed to install the carseat flush with the vehicle seat back.

So really, in almost every single vehicle, that means that the seat can't actually be installed ff'ing in the recline position.

Does the manual have the same wording in the US?

BookMama · Feb 3, 2009

Yes, the wording in the U.S. manual is the same.

snowbird25ca · Feb 3, 2009

BookMama said:
Yes, the wording in the U.S. manual is the same.

Thanks Andrea.

So does anyone happen to know why that disclaimer isn't typically added on when we (great big huge general we,) tell people that Cosco allows the Scenera to be used reclined ff'ing? I know we always recommend it being upright anyways, but the way it's worded really equates to ff'ing recline not being allowed in many vehicles and I don't think that's something I've seen mentioned before. That if is a pretty big thing in my mind and may mean that many if not most of the seat being installed ff'ing with recline are indeed misuse.

scatterbunny · Feb 3, 2009

I've always ignored the "allowance" of the Scenera being used reclined when FF.

It just never seemed right to me. Knowing the actual wording, though, I'd be fine with it if it was truly necessary for the seat shell to be flush with the vehicle seat.

snowbird25ca · Feb 3, 2009

scatterbunny said:
I've always ignored the "allowance" of the Scenera being used reclined when FF. It just never seemed right to me. Knowing the actual wording, though, I'd be fine with it if it was truly necessary for the seat shell to be flush with the vehicle seat.

LOL, truth be told, I've pretty much ignored it too - though I think I've only ever seen 1 ff'ing scenera and we turned it rf'ing because mom didn't have a tether anchor yet and the kid was still within rf'ing limits. (Disclaimer, it's illegal in Canada to not top tether a seat when required by the manufacturer - and all require their ff'ing seats be top tethered. So the child couldn't be legally restrained ff'ing, thus the turning the seat back rf'ing.)

It piqued my curiosity though when I realized the intent of the rule and put it together with conversations I've seen here about it "technically" being allowed... and that's been really just a pretty blanket statement the times that I've seen it - no clarification about the only time it's allowed.

LuvMyCharlie · Feb 3, 2009

So let me see if I get this straight...the Scenera CAN be used reclined FF, but ONLY if it will not fit flush with the vehicle seatback in the upright position?

Well THAT is confusing, my friends.

spokaneCPST · Feb 3, 2009

The fact that Cosco allows the Scenera to be installed in the recline mode has been interpreted to mean its OK to use that way as necessary for special needs kids by the National Center for the Transportation of Children with Special Health Care Needs. The complete list of seats that allow FF recline used to be available online, but my link is dead. Anyway, there is a whole sheet about it in my binder from the Transportation of Children with Special Health Care Needs class.

snowbird25ca · Feb 3, 2009

spokaneCPST said:
The fact that Cosco allows the Scenera to be installed in the recline mode has been interpreted to mean its OK to use that way as necessary for special needs kids by the National Center for the Transportation of Children with Special Health Care Needs. The complete list of seats that allow FF recline used to be available online, but my link is dead. Anyway, there is a whole sheet about it in my binder from the Transportation of Children with Special Health Care Needs class.

I would be very curious to hear more about this interpretation because the manual clearly states it should only be used to achieve an installation flush with the vehicle seat. In other words they don't just want parents installing it that way for the increased recline, it's just allowed if it is the only way for a flush install to be achieved.

Given that it's actually in great big bold letters in the manual, and worded in an "only allowed" type of way, I'm not sure how it falls into an interpretation of being ok as needed for special needs. I guess if budget is an issue and it's a matter of hard decisions where nothing is really preferable, I can see it. But to actually put it on a list of ff'ing seats that can recline without any type of disclaimer seems wrong since it would be using the seat against manufacturers instructions in most vehicles.

spokaneCPST · Feb 3, 2009

I don't know - its actually a sheet that was published by the Safe Rider News. I would guess that the authors have had more dialogue directly with the manufacturers and have gained more insight into the safety of the situation.

joolsplus3 · Feb 3, 2009

I was thinking that the carseat flush with the back of the vehicle seat was kind of a weird rule, that 'every other seat' just makes you get 80% of the base on the vehicle cushion... so then I went to try the Scenera reclined in my captain's chair...and whaddaya know? Almost none of the base and none of the back touched the vehicle seat at all when the Scenera was reclined

I've learned from lurking on the special needs email lists that sometimes you really have to bend the rules in certain situations, in ways you can never really predict, given the very wide variety of special needs kids may have and the families' situations :twocents:

snowbird25ca · Feb 3, 2009

joolsplus3 said:
I was thinking that the carseat flush with the back of the vehicle seat was kind of a weird rule, that 'every other seat' just makes you get 80% of the base on the vehicle cushion... so then I went to try the Scenera reclined in my captain's chair...and whaddaya know? Almost none of the base and none of the back touched the vehicle seat at all when the Scenera was reclined

I've learned from lurking on the special needs email lists that sometimes you really have to bend the rules in certain situations, in ways you can never really predict, given the very wide variety of special needs kids may have and the families' situations :twocents:

I wondered if it very well could be a tough choice situation...

Yeah, I don't think I've yet seen a cosco seat in recline mode that is flush with the back of the vehicle seat - it usually pushes the front of the base forward and a huge part of the back of the shell doesn't touch at all. This is true of the 3in1's if they're installed semi-reclined too. Incidentally they also have the same rule about recline only being allowed if it's needed to get the seat flush. Though I can't really imagine a seatback where reclining it would make it easier to get it flush.

spokaneCPST · Feb 3, 2009

OK, I finally found the link on Safe Ride News. Click on the XLS link on this page:
http://www.saferidenews.com/SRNDNN/...rwardfacingReclinedCRs/tabid/147/Default.aspx

Scenera and ff'ing recline

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