Front Seatting

sexinena

New member
Hi, i was wondering about the front seat seatting for kids from 2years of age in which the car that the child is riding in has NO air bags. :confused:
 
ADS

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
If there is a backseat then children 12 and under should ride in the backseat even when there are no airbags. Statistics indicate the backseat is 25% safer regardless of the presence of airbags.

Is there a special circumstance that's making you consider using the front seat?

If we're talking a special needs child that needs visual monitoring then it may be an acceptable increase in risk to install the seat in the front seat, but I would be very hesitant to recommend that just because of the driver distraction factors - my preference being that a 2nd adult ride in the back seat with the child to tend to their needs if need be. It would be safer for everyone.

If it's a case of needing the front seat to be able to transport all kids it would be helpful to know ages/sizes of kids... Depending on the method of restraint and age, one child may fare better in the front seat than another.
 

sexinena

New member
Thank you for you input. The reason i was wondering is because my husband has an old car that does not have a back seat and if their is no one to pick up the baby from daycare then he would have to pick her up.
 

Pixels

New member
If there is no back seat, and there is no air bag, then yes, it's ok to put a child in the front seat. Make sure that the vehicle seat is moved back as far as possible.
 

Adventuredad

New member
Front seat install with a rear facing seat (AIRBAG DISABLED AND REAR FACING ONLY) is as safe or safer than the rear seat. This have been shown by researchers long ago and is no longer debated. There are several facotrs which contribute to this. I know airbags can't be disabled in US but that was not the question.

Many car seat manufacturers have explained that it's safe and this information is often clearly stated on their websites/manuals/product descriptions. Like Britax for example. In addition, virtually all car manufacturers say the same and so does the crash test institutes (outside of US due to liability and other reasons). I can give you countless examples of this.
 

Pixels

New member
AdventureDad, can you point me to some sources? It really surprises me that you say that RFing in the front seat (no airbag) is safer than RFing in the back seat. Every study I've seen says that back seat is significantly safer than front seat.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
Re: Front Seating

AD is not in the US, where OUR research has shown that airbags have very little to do with whether or not the front seat is or is not safe.

For at least three decade the front passenger seat has been accurately referred to as the "suicide seat". Just being in the front seat puts ALL passengers at approximately 70% greater change of serious injury in a crash.

The front seat is NOT a safe place to be, and should only be used for children below driving age when all other options have been exhausted.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
AdventureDad, can you point me to some sources? It really surprises me that you say that RFing in the front seat (no airbag) is safer than RFing in the back seat. Every study I've seen says that back seat is significantly safer than front seat.

Adventure Dad referenced some of his sources on another forum not too long ago, and I'd invite him to do it again because I'd be most happy to translate the Swedish into English and explain it for everyone here on cs.org. ;)

To sum it up in English, a number of car seat manufacturers recommend front seat because of the hard surface of the dash making it a superior bracing surface. This makes sense as the higher weight rf'ing seats that are used in Sweden are going to have more forces placed on the seat during rotation and be at higher risk of over rotation without a firm bracing surface behind the seat. These circumstances don't apply to north American seats which have to pass rf'ing standards with nothing being braced behind them.

Swedish collision percents are also different than North American. Side impacts and rollovers are rare events in Sweden. Some of the "top safety institutes" etc. quoted have a dialog about front seat being equal in certain types of collisions and less safe in others. In fact there wasn't one link that was posted that upon translating said that front seat was safer. There were car seat manufacturers advising front seat for the benefit of bracing on the dash, and there was some discussion that using the front seat would likely extend the length of time a parent kept a child rf'ing - which in return would increase the safety of the child. Rf'ing in the front seat with no airbag is going to be safer than ff'ing in the backseat in most collisions... So that argument could be interpreted as front seat being safer - but it's really a very around the bush interpretation that isn't completely accurate.

Without pulling up the whole list of the post from the other forum, I can really only sum it up to say that some of the "front seat is just as safe or safer" being repeated over and over is convenient selection from a number of sources that give other information as well. Their own statistics don't show that front seat is safer - but car seat manufacturers prefer front seat with the higher rf'ing weight limits when no air bag is present because of the dash board as a bracing surface. All this really tells me is that it's probably not a good idea to use a Swedish seat in a north american vehicle if it can't be braced. :twocents:

(I'd link to my post, but it was deleted due to an edit made in a prior post which I had quoted, and I never found time to re-word my post. But this is the reason why I'm inviting AD to take the time to post all of the Swedish information again. Because I'm more than happy to take on the translation and explanation again. :thumbsup: )

What I can tell you is that North American seats perform perfectly fine when not braced, and that North American crash statistics indicate that the back seat is safest.

That being said, when the only option is the front seat and there's no airbag, it's ok to place a rf'ing seat in front. I would be sure to make sure the seat has EPS or EPP foam though, and wouldn't want to use the vehicle regularly - my primary concern being that since it's an older car the crumple zone in the car won't be as good as modern vehicles and there could be a significant reduction in how much energy the crumple zone actually absorbed meaning that there could be higher risk of injury even at lower speeds.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Hi, i was wondering about the front seat seatting for kids from 2years of age in which the car that the child is riding in has NO air bags. :confused:

For children 12 years old and younger, the front seat is a last resort. Being closer in proximity to the most common and severe frontal crashes, the risk of fatal injury is higher for kids in that age group, whether an airbag is present or not.

A child can sometimes be seated in front in relative safety, if no airbag is present. Even so, it is much safer to be seated in a rear seat.

Also:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=603457#poststop
 

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