My personal pet peeve...

momto2princes

New member
Is when someone complains about carseats (ie. expense, expiry, etc..) yet doesn't hesitate to pull the $500+ stroller out of their trunk!!

Why is the status symbol (more people are likely to see your stroller than your carseat) more important than safety?

End rant, I just saw this TWICE yesterday!
 
ADS

canmom

New member
I know the feeling... I met someone complaining on the cost of Britax yet she was had on VERY explensive boots :rolleyes: not that Britax is the best or safest or anything but please!
 

twinmommie

New member
I guess I can answer this question because I have done exactly what you have said. I own a Bob Revolution Dualie (sp?) I bought it because with twins, the "cheaper" strollers are hard to push over cracks in the sidewalk, etc... and it was a way I could get out for exercise (walking if not joggine :), and I thought it was crazy expensive. I bought this in 2005, before that, I hadn't seen anyone with a BOB, now I notice them from time to time. I think it was one of the smartest buys I ever made. I used it nearly every day for about 2 years. I am still hanging on to it until the kids out-grow it, but rarely use it now. I bought it at an outdoor store, of which I am a "member" and got a 20% discount, which made it equal in price to the MacClaren twin stroller which had little wheels and wasn't going to be any better for me than my other strollers, but still cost $300+! However, this was a gear CHOICE.

Car seats are a necessity (unless you live somewhere where you don't need a car). Also, what I have been ranting about to my colleagues is why safety should have a high price tag. My kids are just movning into Frontiers. I think I am buying 4 tonight. (Maybe 2 Frontiers and 2 GN's still discussing with DH) but either way it is a lot of money. Thankfully we are in a time in our lives where even though this is not to us a "fun" way to spend money, it is a priority to us so we are doing it. What makes me FURIOUS is that I originally bought two BPB's that were advertised as the "Safest" on the market, and had all sorts of awards from safety groups etc... They were not cheap, but they were not as much as what we are looking at now. There are other BPB and Backless boosters that are sold as "safe" that are very economical.

I thought I was purchasing something that would keep my children protected because the safety standards said these were safe.

My DH didn't like the way boosters fit in the car, and wanted the kids latched in. In the past 2 weeks we have educated ourselves (thanks to this site, police stations, car dealers, car seat dealers, etc..) to find out things we never knew. 1. 5 point harnesses are the safest way to transport a child (this might seem obvious to you, but I thought if something was sold as safe, it was equally as safe) 2. LATCH has a weight limit

So now to my point. WHY are seats that are agreed by the "experts" as the most safe beyond the reach of many families? Safety should not be a has-has not issue.

I am now preaching safety info to anyone who will listen, (my twins club, colleagues, friends, etc... ) I am not sure how active members of this site are in changing the laws, I have only belonged for a short time. I am guessing some people here are actively working on changing laws.

Something needs to be done so that there is equal access to the safest products.

Ok, I think my rant is over, but I will continue to complain about the unfairness of safety having a price.
 

canmom

New member
WHY are seats that are agreed by the "experts" as the most safe beyond the reach of many families? Safety should not be a has-has not issue.


We don't actually know what seat is the "safest" because the testing results are not released. All we know is the seats available all pass the standard testing as to which seat excedes the testing the most etc is a unknown.
 

twinmommie

New member
We don't actually know what seat is the "safest" because the testing results are not released. All we know is the seats available all pass the standard testing as to which seat excedes the testing the most etc is a unknown.

Then why do I read in many places that it is best to keep children in 5-point harnesses as long as possible? I sure loved using the BPB I have used for the past 4 months!! I wont return the ones that I just bought and are sitting on my livingroom floor if they are as safe as a 5-point harness... and there is data to back that up.

Why can't they release testing results? Of course more people would buy the safest seat. They should!
 

canmom

New member
Then why do I read in many places that it is best to keep children in 5-point harnesses as long as possible? I sure loved using the BPB I have used for the past 4 months!! I wont return the ones that I just bought and are sitting on my livingroom floor if they are as safe as a 5-point harness... and there is data to back that up.

Why can't they release testing results? Of course more people would buy the safest seat. They should!

That is a different question all together. Rfing is safest, then ffing in a 5-point harness then booster, then seatbelt... each step towards a vehicle seat belt is a step down in safety. So it is safer to have a child in a 5-point harness than a booster. I meant more like some people saying a Marathon being safer than a Trufit or any other brand, that is simply not known.
 

Genevieve

CPST Instructor
Then why do I read in many places that it is best to keep children in 5-point harnesses as long as possible? I sure loved using the BPB I have used for the past 4 months!! I wont return the ones that I just bought and are sitting on my livingroom floor if they are as safe as a 5-point harness... and there is data to back that up.

Why can't they release testing results? Of course more people would buy the safest seat. They should!

A 5-point is safer because it spreads out crash forces more than a 3-point. That doesn't mean that a $300 5-point is inherently more safe than a $100 5-point. I really wish they would publish their crash test results (Sunshine Kids does, voluntarily), but at this point car seat companies are not required to, so they don't.

I get extremely frustrated at my friend who buys herself clothes every week (and not cheap ones), yet doesn't want to buy her son a booster because they "cost too much". He's currently in a 3 in 1 seat that is MAJORLY outgrown and I want to cry everytime I see him in it.

I also find it a little interesting that many parents refuse to acknowlege they they fell for a marketing ploy by a car seat manufacturer. For example, the friend mentioned above keeps saying "The box said to 100lbs." For some reason they think the makers of car seats don't have fine print and take everything the "box" says at face value. Aren't we smarter consumers than that?
 

twinmommie

New member
Ok, I am new to all this, even though my kids are 4 1/2. I just bought what was in the store.

I think I did ok with my first graco infant seats for the first 6 mos, and evenflo triumphs (I don't know the exact model but they were bought December of 2004) which we used exculsively until this fall.

Did 5 point seats that hold higher weights like Frontier, Nautilus and Regent (isn't there another one too?) exist in 2004 when I bought my Evenflos? If they did, I didn't know about them, or that kids should stay in 5 point harnesses. I could have saved in the long run with only needing one set of seats instead of 2!

Everyone I knew who I thought were doing the safest things they knew for their kids used boosters. I have "safety geek" friends who I know use boosters with 3 year olds and don't know there is a safer option.

If 5 point harness is the best choice. WHy are other seats allowed? It seems to me (I don't know much about manufacturing....) that if 5 points were mandated until age 6, 7, 65 lbs... whatever their limit is.... then the manufactures would have to make them, and would find a way to offer a 5 point harness that would cost the same as an average booster???? I guess I'm just a crazy dreamer.
 

Genevieve

CPST Instructor
The Regent was available at that time (and has been for a while under different names...Husky, Super Elite). The biggest issue overall is just a lack of education. Especially when doctor's (who parents seem to trust without a thought) give out bad advice like, turn your child FF at one year. I try to educate as many people as I can because most people are just ignorant about it, which is neccesarily their fault.

When we know better, we do better (hopefully!). With HWH seats becoming more mainstream I think it's clear we're on the right path. The trick is to make sure parents get the right information and understand the importance of it. Car seat safety just doesn't seem like a very high priority for many peope.
 

sparkyd

Active member
Others have clarified, but I'm just going to do it again in other way. What is "safest" in the sense you are talking about is not about one brand of seat over another, but rather the type of seat that is appropriate for the age, size, and maturity level of your children. As another poster said, each change in type of seat is a step down in safety. Rear-facing, to forward-facing in a harness, to a booster (possibly high-back then no back), seat belt only. The reality is that some small adults aren't really safe in a seat belt because they don't fit properly.

As for which seat within each category or type of seat is "safest", that is another issue. As others have said, we don't know which seats perform best in crash tests, all we know is that the ones that are for sale passed the tests. I personally don't put any faith in the "awards" and ratings put out by various groups, because you don't really know what criteria they used and what they were considering might not be the most important factors for your situation. The most expensive seat isn't necessarily the safest. A brand that puts out great seats for years can suddenly put out a stinker, and vice versa. There are perfectly acceptable seats in lower price ranges. What you are often paying for is more padding, ease-of-use features, and things that are just personal preference. The most important things are that the seat is the right category/type of seat for the child, that it fits the child, that it fits in the car, and that it is used correctly. What seat is best for each of those parameters will vary by situation.

I agree 100% with you that it would be nice to have better laws so that children will stay in the safest type of seats for as long as possible (again, by type I mean category so rear-face as long as possible before forward-facing in a harness, etc.). But I don't think safety is out of reach for most people in terms of cost. For some people, it is a stretch, yes. But for those people lots of other things are tough too. I'm not talking about the people with the expensive boots and strollers. :( What we need to most is better public education about car seats and how to use them so more people are at least aware of what is best.
 

zeo2ski

Well-known member
One thing to remember is it is actually more expensive to manufacture a 5 point HWH seat than a BPB.

CRs are like ANY other product out there--you have to do your research. Do you walk into walmart and pick one of their choices when you buy a stroller, breast pump, crib, TV, stereo, tires, rugs, etc, etc, etc.? Or do you shop around, read online reviews, product facts and comparisons first and then decide? Car seats are a product, the manufacturer is out to make a profit, they can advertise it however they want (within laws) and they are TRYING to get us to buy THEIR product. Is that wrong? Heck no, it's marketing. It's up to us as consumers--and parents--to educate ourselves about anything we buy, especially when it affects our children.

And yeah, it really really bothers me when someone has a T-shield in a brand new BMW...come on, really.
 

sparkyd

Active member
A couple of more people posted while I was busy typing away...

Did 5 point seats that hold higher weights like Frontier, Nautilus and Regent (isn't there another one too?) exist in 2004 when I bought my Evenflos? If they did, I didn't know about them, or that kids should stay in 5 point harnesses. I could have saved in the long run with only needing one set of seats instead of 2!

I'm assuming you are in the US but I can say that the seats that harness to 65 lbs were a new thing in Canada when I got my first convertible seat in early 2008. I'm not sure exactly when they came out, but they definitely didn't have them when some of my friends were car seat shopping in 2005. I have one friend that put her 3-year old in a booster (that was bought for them when their daughter was just a baby) when she outgrew her 40 lb harness, because they had no idea there were 65 lb harness seats on the market. There weren't any when they initially shopped and they didn't need to booster shop because they already had it. As soon as I told them they could get a 65 lb harness they went and got one. I actually sent an email to my friends with kids that age after that happened to make sure they knew about the newer seats. These were people that had done their research up front, but hadn't seen the need to look again.
 

twinmommie

New member
One thing to remember is it is actually more expensive to manufacture a 5 point HWH seat than a BPB.


But if HWH were the ONLY option for that weight range, wouldn't the cost go down due to demand?

CRs are like ANY other product out there--you have to do your research. Do you walk into walmart and pick one of their choices when you buy a stroller, breast pump, crib, TV, stereo, tires, rugs, etc, etc, etc.? Or do you shop around, read online reviews, product facts and comparisons first and then decide?


I actually did research "BPBs" this past summer, and for the past two weeks before I ordered the ones I'm sending back today. I REALLY LOVE THE BPBS, but they aren't the seats for my kids at this age range. THe seats I'm buying today (thanks to all of you) will be the last seats my kids need.

In fact, in my research, your site poped up with people saying how much the liked the seats. What I was searching for was "the safest booster car seats." When I typed that into the search engines, the seats I purchased came up over and over, and were highly praised on this site too! The fact that 5 point harness was the best for this age/weight range didn't come up in any of my searches. (even on this site) for boosters.

How did I get educated? My DH didn't like the fact that the seats weren't "LATCHED" in. In fact that triggered another search for LATCH equipped boosters. We were nearly ready to pull the trigger on a BPB with LATCH when we discovered that LATCH has a limit!! Didn't know that before last weekend! THat lead us to realizing that our only choice for seats was going to cost between $170 - $270 a seat.

Hardly anyone I have talked to knows that HWH harnesses exist. Or, they just think that sales people are pushing high priced seats, because BPB are on the shelf too, and cost much less.

I think three things need to happen:

1. EDUCATION!!
2. NEW LAWS
3. Lower prices for HWH or at least a wider price range.... especially when safety really isn't a choice.
 

Mama Jo

New member
When my DD was a baby, I borrowed an infant seat from a friend. Who had used it on her 3 kids, the oldest of whom was 6 1/2. At 1 year and 20 lbs, she was FF in an Alpha Omega. At 3 years and 30 lbs, she was in a backless booster.

I did NOTHING right, and it wasn't because I didn't care - I just didn't know!! I thank God we were never in a serious collision for the first 4 years of her life!!

At 4 years old, I moved her into a high back booster, and at 5, back into a 5 pt restraint. A little backwards, but at least I finally got it right.

I do wish there was more education FORCED onto people from day one. It's out there, but you have to look for it. And most people don't know they have to look for it. They figure, as I did, if a seat is made for a certain age/weight then it must be safe.

When I had my DS, the hospital FORCED me to watch videos on SIDS and shaken baby syndrome and then I had to take a test on the videos before I could be discharged. They really should do something like that with infant/toddler/child restraints... and even if everyone doesn't remember everything, at least it's put right in front of them and they know to look for the information if they don't remember it all. That would be a step in the right direction!
 

momto2princes

New member
I think 4.5 yrs and 40lbs (here in BC, Canada) is fairly standard. I would harbour a bet at over 90% of parents with children that meet those requirements are in boosters. And to break it down even further only 50% of those are HBB the other 50% are LBB.

Example:
DS's K class has 20 children. Only DS and 1 other girl (who is fairly petite) use a 5 point harness. All the rest are in boosters.

DS's 6th birthday party is coming up and we have 12 children attending that range in age from not quite 5 to just turned 7 a few weeks ago. The only one in a 5 point harness is my son.

Now my DS only hit 40lbs on the nose about a month ago so before now putting him in a booster wasn't even an option but the majority of these kids have been in boosters for well over a year now.

I am starting to feel like the odd man out but I still stand by my choice to harness my child.
 

zeo2ski

Well-known member
When I had my DS, the hospital FORCED me to watch videos on SIDS and shaken baby syndrome and then I had to take a test on the videos before I could be discharged. They really should do something like that with infant/toddler/child restraints... and even if everyone doesn't remember everything, at least it's put right in front of them and they know to look for the information if they don't remember it all. That would be a step in the right direction!

I like that idea.:thumbsup:
 

Jennifer mom to my 7

Well-known member
I was able to research (but didn't find this board) back in 03 when my dd was outgrowing her snugride (20 pound 26 inch limit) and found the marathon, and I think the boulevard was just out then also (but new, didn't know about the wizard, or maybe it was the wizard:confused:). Anyway, I looked at both height and weight limits, and went with a marathon over others, for the added height (and weight). When I got it, my 3.75 year old would have fit (but i had her in a seatbelt :eek:) and then got her a turbo. Good thing I had that marathon, the dd it was bought for outgrew it at 3.5! If I had gotten a 40 pound seat, she would have been out at like 2. They were available, but hard to find, and finance;) Got mine on sale for 199 during 1 of the britax sales.

All that to say, yes they were available, but you needed to find the right research, iykwim. It wasn't until I was researching a new infant bucket that I heard of extended rear facing (babies were going to be 15 months apart). I was able to make the informed decision to keep my dd rf to the limits of her seat (a decathlon) which of course she also is off the charts, and it was only age 2. Average kids will make it to at least 3 in a hwh convertible (because of height). Good thing I found a place to get info, because it was then that my other dd was outgrowing her marathon, and I found out about the regent. IF I didn't find the money for one, I would have had no choice back then but to put her in a belt positioning booster. There was nothing else but the radian, and that would not have promised alot more room, and had install issues in my vehicle. With the release of seats like the evenflo triumph advance, erf and eh are more affordable. And now we have the nautilus (wish they hadn't upped the price by 30 dollars!) 150 was doable for most if they saved a bit, 180 seems to be a push. But soon, there will be more and more seats to accommodate larger children for a longer time.
 

momto2princes

New member
When I had my DS, the hospital FORCED me to watch videos on SIDS and shaken baby syndrome and then I had to take a test on the videos before I could be discharged. They really should do something like that with infant/toddler/child restraints... and even if everyone doesn't remember everything, at least it's put right in front of them and they know to look for the information if they don't remember it all. That would be a step in the right direction!

They should combine it with child birth classes before baby arrives, then a refresher in the hospital. Great idea!
 

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