What new vehicle? Any other seat arrangements I should try?

I think this is the right spot for this.....if not, feel free to move it, Mods!

Also, this is going to be long......sorry.

Our lease is up next month on our '05 Odyssey. 5 carseats in there is doable, but not very functional since I'd have to buckle up both my older kids' boosters every time. (That back row isn't wide at all.) So I think it's time to move on to a different vehicle.

We've been looking at:
- a Sienna (probably 2007 or 2008) 8-passenger
- a Ford E-series passenger van (12-passenger)
- a Dodge Sprinter 10 or 12 passenger (pre-2008 are 10-passenger, 2008-9 are 12 passenger (and a lot more expensive))

We borrowed a Sienna from a dealership over the weekend and I tried out all the carseats to see if 5 carseats fit better in that than the Odyssey. They do. There are a couple of scenarios that work, but still aren't ideal.

Here are the carseats I have....and then I'll tell you what worked in the Sienna.

2 Parkways
1 Husky
2 Radians
1 BLVD
1 Marathon

And come June, I'll have 2 RFers, 1 harnessed, 1 harnessed or booster (could still fit in the Husky at that point, but I don't mind him being in a booster) and 1 full-time booster child

In the Sienna I got it to work like this (pretend you're looking down on the van):
Scenario 1
3rd row: RF RN/ Pkwy/ RF RN
2nd row: Husky/ take seat out/ FF BLVD
In this scenario, the Pkwy was hard to buckle, but doable....especially if I duct tape the buckle stalk to the side of the Pkwy for easier access.

Another one that worked was:
Scenario 2
3rd row: Pkwy/Pkwy/FF RN
2nd row: RF BLVD/RF RN/take seat out for access to 3rd row
This scenario is fine, but the 2 Pkwys are again, hard to buckle. (Especially that one in the middle....that space is not very wide for a booster.)

Another one I thought of, but didn't try is:
Scenario 3:
3rd row: RF RN/ Pkwy/ FF RN (not sure if this will all fit)
2rd row: Husky/RF RN/take seat out

Another one I know would work, but we didn't try:
Scenario 4:
3rd row: Husky/empty/FF RN
2nd row: RF BLVD/RF RN/Pkwy

So things do fit better in the Sienna than the Odyssey, but there are still a few things that drive me nuts. The dumb buckle stalk on the passenger-side seat of the 3rd row is rigid, therefore making a seatbelt install w/a RN impossible. A seatbelt install for a RN is also impossible in the middle seat of the 3rd row due to the 2 long buckle stalks there. (The one that the belt comes down to straight from the ceiling is rigid and the other one is long and even when twisted 3 times, it doesn't work.) LATCH works great in those spots, only you can't get the carseat over to the side far enough in the passenger-position to leave room for 2 more carseats on the bench. And the LATCH is off-center in the middle, leaving not enough room for a carseat on the driver's-side.

Another thing that's irritating (but not a deal-breaker) is only having 1 door be an automatic-sliding door. What is up with that? I know it's not the end of the world, but sometimes it comes in handy.

The middle row in the Sienna is AWESOME! I wish the 3rd row was exactly like it!

Issues w/above scenarios:

Scenario 1: I have no problem with this (this was my favorite set-up), but DH doesn't really like the idea of having to put kids in through the back hatch (and there really isn't a ton of open space between the back of the bench and the ceiling).

Scenario 2: Middle-seat Pkwy was hard to buckle. (It's always hard to buckle in that middle spot).

Scenario 3: Not sure if it'll work....I didn't think of it while I had the van. And it still leaves a RF-er in the 3rd row.

Scenario 4: It would be a total pain to have to move the booster out of the way and flip the seat forward EVERY single time we all got in/out of the van.



Like I said, we're also looking at the BIG vans, but we're not sure if we want to go that route yet. And for anyone who owns one.....how well do RFing seats (specifically the Radians and the Britax seats) fit on the rows? Do they hit the row in front of them?

Honestly, I think I'd love to get a Sprinter, but they're A LOT more expensive than the other 2 options. And DH isn't convinced we need a BIG van yet. AND it won't fit in our garage, so it'd be out in the snow all winter....yuck!

Any advice or any other seat-arrangement ideas would be helpful. Thank you to anyone who actually makes it through all this. Hopefully it was understandable. It helped me just to type it all out and see it in black and white. So thanks.

I'm buying a sienna for my family 8 as you know. I would not invest in a big ford van, but go straight to the sprinter if I decided I wanted a big van. I can in no way afford a sprinter, so we'll go with the sienna. If you can afford the sprinter and want to drive a big van, go for it. You'll have tons of room. I know the sienna will be squished for us. If we do have a 7th child I'm hoping to get the multimac We'll switch over to a sprinter when the kids get big and we have money or we have baby number 8. By then the sprinters will be older and less expensive I hope. If we do buy a big van it will be the last of the big vehicles we will ever buy. I'd want the headrests so that I could have 4 teenagers in the van when we come to that. I thought about the ford vans, but with no headrests I'd want to buy the sprinter when the kids finally (if ever) grew too big for high back boosters.

Have you tried moving the middle seat up and doing 3 across there? I was thinking of putting one booster child in the middle with it forward, then putting nautilus on one side, and other booster on the other side. (Not sure if it will work or not.) Then my rfers in the back.

Now, if you don't want to put the rfers in the back, could you move the middle on up and put the two rfers on the side and middle, then the husky, ffing radian, parkway in back? I have no idea if that will fit or not. Maybe call out the sienna owners and find out what does work?

I've been meaning to talk to you about this, Christine. Have you tried out all of your carseats in the Sienna? It had a couple of quirks I wasn't expecting.

I think if I'm going to have both rear-facers in the 3rd row, I'll still just stick the Pkwy in the middle of them, even though the seatbelt's hard to do. I like having one of the older kids be able to help the babies. Or else have them in the 2nd row where I can help them.

I like your second scenario, except there's no way the Husky will fit in a 3-across in the 3rd row (but it would in the 2nd row). So in that scenario, it would be like my scenario 2....I'd do both Pkwys and a FF RN in the 3rd row. It is doable, just not very easy.

Also, why is it that you'd go w/the Sprinter over the Ford van? I like it better too, for a number of reasons, but the Sprinter is just so much more expensive. That's a lot of our problem. We'd be spending double what we would on the other 2 vehicles. I know it gets better gas mileage because it's diesel, but diesel fuel is more expensive. I also like that it has headrests in every seat, but I know a guy who can put those in the Fords (I know, I know...aftermarket...but I think it can be done safely), and the Fords come with lap/shoulder belts in all positions now too. But both big vans are rear-wheel drive, which is a bummer in the winter.

I didn't know you could put headrests in the Ford vans!!! That was why I'd choose the sprinter. I haven't researched it any more than that. I'd have to do some research on the safety of both vehicles and aftermarket headrests and then decide. Gosh, I wish I'd know about the headrest thing before.

I tried my seats out in the sienna when we test drove, but I didn't do any playing around. I just stuck them in.

I had, rfing titan, nautilus, graco booster in the second row. (didn't even think about moving the middle one)

and rfing scenera, emtpy, and vivo booster in the back

I have heard from people on this board that the siennas can fit just about any combo of 3 across, so I figure I'll just get the van, then rearrange the seats 100 times or whatever that number turns out to be.

Oh and the lady who let us test drive her sienna said the side seat could move forward a little, so you don't necessarily have to fold up the seat every time you want to put a person in the back.

We did slide it the 2nd row seat forward, but it didn't seem like there was a ton of room to get by. Probably doable, but probably fairly squishy. But kids are ok w/that, right?

And the guy I know who does the headrests did some for my brother. I haven't specifically asked him about the Ford van yet, but I'm pretty sure he'll be able to do it.

As the resident Sprinter owner, and proud Britax enthusiast, I think I can answer these questions

Big Britax seats fit just fine in the Sprinter. The only time you might have an issue is with a newborn recline in one of the back benches. The front bench, you won't have any problem getting the newborn recline.

And, I can get 3 Regents across the back 3-seat bench of my 10-passenger van.

ETA differences between the Ford/Chevy and Sprinter vans...there is no diesel option in Ford/Chevy vans, unless you are going to have it specially made for you...it only comes in a diesel in the cargo version. The Diesel engine in the Sprinter gets 20-22mpg hwy or around town driving...Ford/Chevy you'll only get 12-15.

Raechel

Chex said:

Also, why is it that you'd go w/the Sprinter over the Ford van? I like it better too, for a number of reasons, but the Sprinter is just so much more expensive. That's a lot of our problem. We'd be spending double what we would on the other 2 vehicles. I know it gets better gas mileage because it's diesel, but diesel fuel is more expensive. I also like that it has headrests in every seat, but I know a guy who can put those in the Fords (I know, I know...aftermarket...but I think it can be done safely), and the Fords come with lap/shoulder belts in all positions now too. But both big vans are rear-wheel drive, which is a bummer in the winter.

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I ran the math, and diesel would have to be twice the cost of unleaded to make it worthwhile to use unleaded...the gas mileage on the diesel is that much better! Not only does the Sprinter have headrests in each seat, but it also has lap/shoulder belts in *all* seating positions.

I also believe it is likely to last longer than the Ford/Chevy vans, simply because the engine is a Mercedes-Benz, not an American made one. Let's face it, Detroit hasn't exactly been terribly good for longevity recently!

one thing to consider about your scenarios is that the third row driver's side doesn't have a tether anchor. I see you have a ff harnessed seat there in a few scenarios. Of course, the RN has great head excursion numbers, but that's still probably something to consider. On the other hand, the Sprinter has no TAs at all, so the Sienna lacking one doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

That's true, Crunchy....I hadn't thought about the missing TA in the back. And that's seriously the ONE spot you can put a FF RN in the 3rd row!
Now I'm remembering why that second scenario was so tight....I think I actually did it backwards from what I wrote in my first post. I think I installed the RN w/LATCH on the passenger side and had the 2 Pkwys next to it. But since the LATCH is centered in that passenger spot, it scooted the Pkwys over a lot and made for a very tight and hard-to-reach-buckles situation. IF you could get a good install w/the seatbelt, you could scoot the RN over on the bench about 2-3 inches which would free-up some room for the Pkwy. Dang it! Dumb vans! Why don't car manufacturers get a clue and get advice on this stuff before making these cars?!?

I'm not sure what year they started, but the new Sprinters all have TAs. We went and looked at one a few months ago and there were quite a few TAs (can't remember exactly how many....forgot to count). That was on a 2008, which is a newer version that's a 12-passenger rather than 10. So maybe the older ones don't have them? Although, I thought it was law....shouldn't they have to have some?

Oh, and Momof4Girls, thanks for your perspective. It's good to know my seats will probably fit in the Sprinter just fine. And thanks for doing the math on the gas. I hadn't thought it all through.

Also, the newer Fords have lap/shoulder belts in all rear positions now. Not sure what year that started, but we just saw one with them. I just can't figure out why they can't get their act together with the dumb headrests? What's so hard about sticking them on?

Chex said:

I'm not sure what year they started, but the new Sprinters all have TAs. We went and looked at one a few months ago and there were quite a few TAs (can't remember exactly how many....forgot to count). That was on a 2008, which is a newer version that's a 12-passenger rather than 10. So maybe the older ones don't have them? Although, I thought it was law....shouldn't they have to have some?

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That's good to hear. The LATCH manual only lists through 07, but I should have the new one in the next week. The Sprinter is technically exempt from TAs by weight. If they've added them, it's as a courtesy. There are some Ford vehicles like that too (although at least some the E series vans have lower anchors as well :thumbsup

Do you think you can get them retrofitted in the pre-'08 models? Because I really don't think we can afford an '08. They're so dang expensive! We went to look at the new ones and the base model was like $40k. Dang!

Just last night I came up with an arrangement, but I had forgotten about the lack of tether anchor in the back. I was thinking you could put the ffing RN and parkway in the back with the one seat down for access through the cargo, then do a 3 across in the middle. Of course, what do you do when you have 6 kids? I thought very seriously about keeping our old beast and saving more money to just go with the sprinter. I don't like the idea of either driving my old van anymore, nor did I like the idea of driving a full sized van yet. I think I won't get to that point until we absolutely need to. I'm just not a big vehicle kind of person. That's too bad about the lack of tether anchors on older model sprinters. There's a 2006 for $22k on ksl, but no tether anchors. I wonder if they could be retrofitted... or maybe some of those aftermarket ones?

I was hoping that the new radian would be easier to install forward facing. It is too bad that it isn't. It might have worked better with siennas...

Chex said:

We did slide it the 2nd row seat forward, but it didn't seem like there was a ton of room to get by. Probably doable, but probably fairly squishy. But kids are ok w/that, right?

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:thumbsup: My kids have squeezed into the 3rd row with the 2nd row seat up numerous times. My 11 yr old may be too big to do it now, but he's ridden in the 2nd row for the last year or so so I haven't seen him try in a while.

I would go with the Sienna because you can make it work, everyone will fit, and it is the most environmentally friendly of all of the options, but I don't think it's actually that much better than the Sprinter, is it? Now, that being said, the Sprinter is my dream vehicle. I would love to have one someday (and have enough kids to actually need one)!

christineka said:

Just last night I came up with an arrangement, but I had forgotten about the lack of tether anchor in the back. I was thinking you could put the ffing RN and parkway in the back with the one seat down for access through the cargo, then do a 3 across in the middle. Of course, what do you do when you have 6 kids? I thought very seriously about keeping our old beast and saving more money to just go with the sprinter. I don't like the idea of either driving my old van anymore, nor did I like the idea of driving a full sized van yet. I think I won't get to that point until we absolutely need to. I'm just not a big vehicle kind of person. That's too bad about the lack of tether anchors on older model sprinters. There's a 2006 for $22k on ksl, but no tether anchors. I wonder if they could be retrofitted... or maybe some of those aftermarket ones?

I was hoping that the new radian would be easier to install forward facing. It is too bad that it isn't. It might have worked better with siennas...

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Actually, Christine, that is a really good thought....to have a RF RN and the Pkwy in the back with the access for the Pkwy through the back. Not a bad idea at all. I'm definitely going to consider that. :thumbsup:

The guy I know that does aftermarket headrests and stuff is the same guy who retrofitted 3 new tether anchors in the 3rd row of our Odyssey. He knows what he's doing. They're anchored to the chassis. I'm willing to bet it can be done in the Sprinter too. So that may still be an option.

sirrahn said:

:thumbsup: My kids have squeezed into the 3rd row with the 2nd row seat up numerous times. My 11 yr old may be too big to do it now, but he's ridden in the 2nd row for the last year or so so I haven't seen him try in a while.

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That's good to know. I'm glad somebody's BTDT. Thanks!

stayinhomewithmy4 said:

I would go with the Sienna because you can make it work, everyone will fit, and it is the most environmentally friendly of all of the options, but I don't think it's actually that much better than the Sprinter, is it? Now, that being said, the Sprinter is my dream vehicle. I would love to have one someday (and have enough kids to actually need one)!

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I'm thinking that for now the Sienna's going to be the most economical too. I really do love the Sprinters, but is there a reason to get one before we actually NEED one, like you said? What do you drive?

Chex said:

Do you think you can get them retrofitted in the pre-'08 models? Because I really don't think we can afford an '08. They're so dang expensive! We went to look at the new ones and the base model was like $40k. Dang!

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No We tried.

Raechel

The manufacturers only retrofit TAs for pre-latch era vehicles; if they're newer and just don't require TAs because of weight (or only have 2 and you want 3) you can't get them retrofitted. BUT you could look into EZ-on's heavy duty TAs which could be installed by your handy guy.
The newer than 2007 Sprinters have I believe 3 TAs.

Someone said you can actually have Ford build you a seat with headrests. Now they were talking about ordering a brand new vehicle, but I would hope they could get you a replacement seat for a used van you find, but I don't know for sure. BTW they said Ford was looking to hear the feedback from the public saying they want headrests in all the vans, so give em a call or letter!
I would assume Chevy would want to hear it too.

And...I want a sprinter