Need help -( ? about school busses & toddlers)

Michi · Aug 3, 2006

I have a very hard decision to make, and I need help!

Katie-Noel , my 3 yr. old, has been accepted into a program for toddlers with severe speech delays. While I'm thrilled, the problem is that the only school in town that offers it is almost 1/2 hour away. (Which adds up to 2 hours in the car every day.) - School is from 8-11, Monday thru Thursday.
This will be my first year homeschooling my older two kids, and I there is no way I can sacrifice 2 hours , and still get all of my lesson plans done. ( Not to mention.....we really can't afford the GAS right now!)

SO....my options at this point are.....putie Katie on a BUS

(I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I have to send my 3 yr old to school at ALL, let alone on a BUS!)
OR...do I just try to seek alternative speech therapy. ( She could get it once a week for about 1 hour at our neighborhood elementary school...but is that enough...As I mentioned before, her speech delays have been classified as 'severe.')
I am about ready to cry........

I know that the busses are the smaller kind, and they are suppossed to have car seats - ( but I have never seen inside one of them to know if they are installed properly or not.) Are these kinds of busses safe?
I just can NOT imagine watching a bus drive off with my 3 yr old every day.
Plus, I'm worried that if I send her on the bus then I won't have any interaction/communication with her teacher.
What would you do?
TIA, Michi

wendytthomas · Aug 3, 2006

I'd probably try the alternative one first, and then if that doesn't work explore other options.

I don't think I could let Piper go on a bus every day either. That's one of the bonuses of homeschooling!!!

I know a lady, though, who has twins who go to school (same age as Piper) and they DO ride in their carseats on the bus every day. She's not a CPST, but she's a definite car seat nut, and she's ok with it.

Wendy

Michi · Aug 3, 2006

wendytthomas said:
I don't think I could let Piper go on a bus every day either. That's one of the bonuses of homeschooling!!!
Wendy

Oh, I know, Wendy...That's why I want to homeschool the older two ...
to spend MORE time with them, and not have to 'send them away.'
This whole speech issue has really thrown me for a loop.
I just want to do what's best for ALL of my kids, but I feel like I'm being forced to choose one over the other..KWIM?

BrookeSLP · Aug 3, 2006

I'd be more concerned about the 2 hours in a bus each day than the bus itself. Do you think she needs the inclusive program?

Brooke

Patriot201 · Aug 3, 2006

I think I would question the school system about the transportation situation. Maybe the bus seating is fine. I would take a look at it and see how bad it is.

I know it must be hard to face putting your 3-year-old on a bus to go to school. I can't imagine, especially since the school is 1/2 hour away. However, it sounds like she may need some intensive speech therapy and she can best be serviced at the school that is further away.

I am not a speech clinician, so I definitely am not an expert, but it seems like NOW would be the time to address her needs. I think, from the VERY little bit of training I have about speech and language disorders, that early intervention is best. The earlier the intervention, the better the outcome.

I definitely don't envy you. This must be a very hard decision to make.

bucket2 · Aug 3, 2006

I understand your concerns about CPS. And would recommend calling the bus company/department and asking about the type of seats and seat belts used and whether there is another adult on the bus, etc. Also, go and look.

At the same time, I'm a special education teacher and would definitely recommend any of the early childhood special education classrooms I've visited for a child with significant speech issues. The progress the kids make when with their peers and a trained teacher is amazing.

I also taught in a program for kids 6 mons to 3 yr. with moderate to severe needs and these kids were all transported by van to the center for the 4 hour class (2-3x per week). Yes, it was stressful for the parents to send their very little ones (almost all had NO verbal skills) on a van for up to 30/45 minutes twice a day. At the same time, they could see the speech, OT, PT therapists at the center most of the time and receive MORE therapythan being seen once or twice a week at home for an hour. Again, the progress was amazing for many of the kids.

In general, buses are one of the safest modes of transportation and most schools are good about using seats correctly. I think the potential benefits of the services your DD will receive outweigh the potential risks of transportation, especially if you can check out the bus and restraint use before hand.

PS - In six years with the public schools, I've yet to see a child who didn't enjoy riding the bus/going to school (given time to acclimate - the first few days of tears don't count).

bucket2 · Aug 3, 2006

pablomichi said:
I just can NOT imagine watching a bus drive off with my 3 yr old every day.
Plus, I'm worried that if I send her on the bus then I won't have any interaction/communication with her teacher.
What would you do?

Just re read the OP.

Communication with the teacher is built in to the ECSE programs I know about. There are still home visits.

Often teachers send home calendars and letters about activities, skills, books, and songs they are using the in the classroom so that you can: 1) have a clue what your DD is trying to tell you she did at school 2) reinforce the same skills at home by TALKING about them, singing the same song, reading the same book. 3) "Prep" your DD for any special activities - bringing something from home, special programs at school, etc.

For the young kids, most also include a daily individal note/maintain acommunciation book about what YOUR child did, if they ate, toileted, etc. Teachers are almost always receptive to requests from a parent wanting to know what/how their child is doing in the classroom and what can be done at home to help. Hope this helps.

Michi · Aug 3, 2006

Thank you for your replies!

My DH is REALLY hesitant to do the whole bus thing (even more so than me).

I did not enroll her in the summer session of speech ( which had been recommended) because I thought that a 3 yr old should be a kid and enjoy her summer, and although I have seen some improvement in her speech, it has not been as much as last spring when she was in the program full time. (I was able to drive her then, because my other kids were in school full time.)

I will try to call the bus company - I'm just worried that IF they have harnessed seats she won't fit because she's pretty tall - (...and I don't want her in a booster!)

bucket2 · Aug 3, 2006

pablomichi said:
I will try to call the bus company - I'm just worried that IF they have harnessed seats she won't fit because she's pretty tall - (...and I don't want her in a booster!)

If this is the case, ask about using an EZ on Vest.

DD is a special education student with an IEP / IFSP. There is a section about transporation in that document. You could have use of 5 pt. harness or EZ on Vest made a requirement on her IEP/IFSP (You can request changes or revisions to her IFSP at anytime. And since it's a legal document, you have 'grounds' to see that the statements about services are followed.)

Michi · Aug 3, 2006

Thanks 'Bucket 2'
This is all new to me, so I really appreciate the help!

She was in the 'early intervention' program until she turned 3, but our SLP came right to our house.
Then, she joined this class (phonology) in the late spring, but I was able to drive her. She loved the class
(although she only went for a few weeks before summer) and she really wants to return.
I'm the one having the 'separation anxiety' issues.

Patriot201 · Aug 3, 2006

bucket2 said:
You could have use of 5 pt. harness or EZ on Vest made a requirement on her IEP/IFSP (You can request changes or revisions to her IFSP at anytime. And since it's a legal document, you have 'grounds' to see that the statements about services are followed.)

Good point. I guess since Katie-Noel is in preschool, she will be serviced under an IFSP. IEPs are for children of school age. I would assume that Katie-Noel will have at least one speech and language goal, if not more.

While you have the right to amend her IFSP at anytime, most special education teachers will ask that you do not note a SPECIFIC item (such as an EZ-on) in the IFSP. Because it is a legal document, the school staff MUST abide by what is in the document. That means that an EZ-on would have to be used at all times. It would be better to say something like "When being transported in a motor vehicle, Katie-Noel will use a 5-point harness child restraint 100% of the time." That would still require the school to use a 5-point harness, but would not require an addendum to the IFSP if you decide to get her a different type of restraint than an EZ-on. Some jursidictions make it easier to amend an IFSP/IEP than others. My jurisdiction only started allowing us to hold an addendum without meeting within the past year. Before that, we had to hold a meeting every time we wanted to make even the most minor of changes.

I agree 100% with bucket2 that children who have received early intervention can make tremendous progress when they are working with a trained special educator and trained special services professionals, such as speech and language clinicians.

bucket2 · Aug 3, 2006

Patriot20171 said:
While you have the right to amend her IFSP at anytime, most special education teachers will ask that you do not note a SPECIFIC item (such as an EZ-on) in the IFSP. My jurisdiction only started allowing us to hold an addendum without meeting within the past year. Before that, we had to hold a meeting every time we wanted to make even the most minor of changes.

Patriot, good point about the less specific wording and about making addendums w/o holding an official IEP meeting, as a sped teacher myself, I've been told not to include specific devices, tools, or programs but rather to describe what it's to do. I wanted to let pablomichi know that she CAN request a meeting or changes at any time, since most parents don't know that it is one of their many rights as a member of the IEP team. Her district is gonna love us.

Patriot201 · Aug 3, 2006

bucket2 said:
Her district is gonna love us.

LOL! Yeah, they will, won't they?

I think it is good, though, for parents to be educated about their rights as part of the IEP team. Many parents are frightened of the IEP process, which I can imagine would be a bit overwhelming if you are not used to it. I try really hard to not throw around lingo that the parents can't easily understand. For example, I am not going to say something like, "We are holding this IEP meeting to discuss the FBA/BIP that was done, if 'Johnny" needs ESY, and accommodations that 'Johnny' may need for the VGLA or SOLs." Can you imagine what that would feel like? That would be SO overwhelming and would probably alienate a parent/guardian who is not accustomed to lingo like that. (FYI: SOLs are our state's standardized exam. The VGLA is an alternative assessment for students who cannot take the SOLs).

Because I teach older kids, I have the student as part of the IEP team too. For many of my students, I am the first one of their case managers to invite them to be at their IEP meeting. They have to educated about their rights, too!

Michi · Aug 11, 2006

Thank you guys for helping with the wording! I sent in the transportation request today. I found out a bit of good news
( i think?) in that they have an adult bus aide that rides along and attends to the toddlers,
so that gives me a little more peace of mind.
Thanks for all your help,
Michi

Patriot201 · Aug 13, 2006

Oh good! I'm so glad that there is a monitor to help with the younger children. Hopefully that will gie you some piece of mind.

Best of luck! I hope Katie-Noel does well!

Victorious4 · Aug 15, 2006

I was just going to ask if they have bus aids.... I was thinking of being one

Anyway, I'd ask if the bus aid has any child passenger safety training -- if not, or if they looked confuzzled, then I'd make sure you get to install kiddo's seat yourself & I'd even demand they sign a statement from you that they follow the manual at all times, plus I'd give them the contact information of the local CPSTs.

Good luck!!! =)

blue_nova · Aug 15, 2006

papooses said:
I was just going to ask if they have bus aids.... I was thinking of being one

Anyway, I'd ask if the bus aid has any child passenger safety training -- if not, or if they looked confuzzled, then I'd make sure you get to install kiddo's seat yourself & I'd even demand they sign a statement from you that they follow the manual at all times, plus I'd give them the contact information of the local CPSTs.

Good luck!!! =)

Yes this is all very good advice..... because chances are they WILL look at you like your coo-coo when you mention child passenger safety training...... Uggh here comes the awful truth from at least my area (northern new jersey) I drive a mini-van for a well known national school bus/tranportation company. Neither I nor my bus aid or anyone to my knowledge who works from my bus yard has any training in child passenger saftey training. For example: We have a room that the child saftey seats and harnesses are stored, I just learned the dangers of sheild booster from this board about 6months ago.... I took all the shelds and destroyed them along w/ a car seat that was very expired. Also to bring up another point ALWAYS installing your kiddos seat would be easyer said than done. Buses must be serviced/inspected or could break.... meaning then the driver/aid or lot person would have to move all the seats to a different bus.... sorry for such a long rambling post.

bucket2 · Aug 15, 2006

blue_nova said:
For example: We have a room that the child saftey seats and harnesses are stored, I just learned the dangers of sheild booster from this board about 6months ago.... I took all the shelds and destroyed them along w/ a car seat that was very expired. Also to bring up another point ALWAYS installing your kiddos seat would be easyer said than done. Buses must be serviced/inspected or could break.... meaning then the driver/aid or lot person would have to move all the seats to a different bus.... sorry for such a long rambling post.

What did your supervisor say when you asked to do this? (I tried to just ditch the shield booster the ECSE program had for emergencies. I even had a TB to replace it with and got a NO!).

Depending on the type of vehicle, the seat might or might not need to be moved for the next trip it makes. This was true for my program for birth to 3 - the vans went elsewhere and then came back (yes, CR in/out for each trip

for each child).

On the other hand, by all means, check out the seat/install job long BEFORE the bus shows up at your house and again when you put your child on the bus each day. Chat up the bus driver/para and show how your DD should look in the seat. Give them "quick and dirty" info/illustrations you have in writing so they can take it to their supervisors - remember, the bus people have little or no say in what/how things are done. Chances are, they'll be very willing to learn and cooperate with you. These people aren't in it for the big bucks and generally LOVE the little ones (much less obnoxious than the middle school crowd

).

PS: It wouldn't hurt to: Bake them cookies, offer a cold/hot drink, Give them GERM GEL, tissues or Clorox Wipes

)

Hope Katie-Noel is excited to start "school."

SarahP · Aug 20, 2006

We will have a similar situation this fall as my daughter is to go to ESCE for speech (probably) and my son to preschool in the same building but different hours. I will drive her the 20 minutes each way, only because if she bussed - she'd come home while I was driving my son. While she is in speech, we'll goto the park on nice days, or McDonald's to play on not nice days or something. 2 hours is just not long enough for me to get home and back. Parents as Teachers is in the same building - so perhaps we'll do soem drop in and play
I had 2 thoughts -
1) I don't know about your climate - but could you take your home school stuff and either use a room in the ESCE building or on nice days teach them outside perhaps at a park. We are a bit spoiled here as our ESCE building was once a Middle school - so their is loads of room.
2) I have a friend who's son went through the speech here and had such a dramatic improvement in 3 or 4 months that he went from virtually now speech skills to talking 2 years above his age that he did not need to keep going.

Michi · Sep 6, 2006

I'm in tears........
I called the bus company ahead of time.
On the 'transportation request' form I specifically stated just what 'Patriot' told me to

"When being transported in a motor vehicle, Katie-Noel will use a 5-point harness child restraint 100% of the time."

Yet, when the (big yellow) bus showed up today (It was suppossed to be a smaller bus) all they had were LAP BELTS!
I asked where was the car seat I requested, and the bus aide said that
....."the paper said the bus could have either car seats or seat belts and this kind of bus only has seat belts."

And they are LAP BELTS!!!

Does anyone know - CAN a big yellow bus have a car seat? She made it sound like that kind of bus couldn't have them.
(But, I would assume that since there is a lap belt, they could use that to install one???)

Also, I am concerned that even if they DID get her a car seat, it wouldn't fit her.
We just moved her to the top set of straps on her MA.

I'm right back to square one...(Do I drive her myself, or do I just check out other speech options?)

Need help -( ? about school busses & toddlers)

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