Thoughts on a Car seat on a Plane please

This was posted on another board. I was responding and I guess I am not quite awake this morning and can't make it make sense. Can you help please?


"Brady is 2 1/2 so he has his own seat, my understanding is we don't have to use the seat, but can (is that even correct?).

DH thinks it'll be a pain to carry on and install, I think Brady will be tearing up and down the plane aisles unless we do something to secure him (and I don't think the belt on the plan will cut it).

Any thoughts from those who've flown with toddlers before? I know it depends a bit on the temperment of the child - Brady is normally very active, he literally runs laps around our house, but sometimes in new situations he's surprisingly clingly.

Any other tips to keep him happy? We're planning on having a suitcase full of colouring books, cars, and his dvd player, so we've got entertainment covered! ""



Thanks ladies

Correct, Brady doesn't need a carseat on a plane. Planes don't require them for anyone. However, children are much safer with a carseat. I have heard that carseats are also great to keep the todlers under control. A child knows what to expect when sitting in their carseat. You buckle and you sit for a while. A plane and a lap belt is another story, the child doesn't know what to expect or how to behave.

A few months ago I read 2 articles about planes that had problems (bad turbulance and/or landing problems) and many passengers ended up in the hospital, some with back problems. I couldn't imagine having a young child w/o a carseat on those planes.

Using a car seat purely for safety reasons is not rational. But there might be other good reasons to bring seat on the plane. Some kids lover theri seats and behave better, some sleep far better, and if you bring it on the plane you know for sure it doesn't get lost with other luggage.

I've flown a lot with my kids and find lap babies much more pleasant to be around but others have different experiences. I recommend bringing some new toy or coloring book along, plenty of back up clothing, food such as yogurt (they will let you through with that). I did 50 flights with my kids the first 3 years. Many of them long transatlantic flights. Pack smart, don't bring lots of crap on the plane, and talk to your toddler before about what to expect. Bring along some water, fill it up after stupid TSA checkpoint, and give toddler during takeoff and landing to avoid ear problems. Be very patient, that's perhaps my best advice.

Always pre-board with the kids and ask nicely and you will get to visit cockpit with kids before it's closed. My kids love this and we do it as long as we don't delay flight/other passengers. Treat the flight/trip as an adventure instead of a hassle. That's what we always do. We even go to the airport occasionally to look at planes and hang out (told you my kids love flying....)

Kids who are raised to behave fine outside the plane will be just fine. My kids love flying, it's fine flying with them but it can be exhausting on those long 20 hour flights.......

However, children are much safer with a carseat.

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There are zero kids dying from turbulence each year. The chance that a child will survice a crash simply because he/she was in a seat is also unbelievably small. Considering 25 000+ flights alone in US per day it's safe to say flying is the safest thing your child will ever do regardless if using a car seat, no belt, or lap belt.

A car seat is safer but the difference in safety is insignificant which is what data tells us. Data I have seen says 6 people have died by turbulence since 1980. Between 2003 and 2007 NTSB identified 57 turbulence events on airliners that involved a serious injury to at least one person on the aircraft. I think that makes it very safe.

I agree that the safety factor might not be enough to outweigh the hassle of hauling around a carseat, but the convenience factor far outweighs the hassle IMO.

Kids are already very comfortable with their carseats - they know that a carseat means sitting for long periods of time (and ten minutes is "long" to a child!) they know it means "going somewhere," and they know exactly what to do in a carseat.

When you get on a plane, it's a new experience, something different, and kids are just naturally going to be either excited, scared, or a bit of both. If you then put them in their carseat on that plane, it eases the transition to this new and exciting and scary experience. It says "This is just like riding in a car, dearie, and you're already very good at that and you know just what to do. Here, have a cookie and a coloring book."

Kids are also already experts at sleeping in their carseats. Their little bodies already know how to sleep in a carseat and are comfortable with it. So napping on the plane is just going to be easier in a carseat than in just the plane seat.

All those things add up to a much easier flight for both the child and the parents, and make the "hassle" of lugging the carseat more than worthwhile.

The main reason I like to use a carseat on the plane is that I know it will get to the destination without being lost or damaged. I have no guarantee that my carseat will arrive at my destination on-time if I check it as baggage.

My kids often fall asleep in their carseats so they usually slept on our longer flights, which I was very happy about. I don't know if they would have slept if they did not have their carseats.

I understand that plane seatbelts are often too large for a child, even when tightened as much as possible. This means that the child is able to squirm and crawl out of said seatbelt. I know this would mean absolute chaos and anarchy for my 2y/o. I'd sooner eat my socks than fight with a child to stay seated. If we ever flew with our kids, they'd be in their car seats, no if's, and's, or but's about it. :twocents:

Defrost said:

I agree that the safety factor might not be enough to outweigh the hassle of hauling around a carseat, but the convenience factor far outweighs the hassle IMO.

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I couldn't agree more. It seems inconvenient to lug the car seat through the airport, but it is SO much easier than dealing with a squirmy toddler on the plane.

canadiangie said:

I understand that plane seatbelts are often too large for a child, even when tightened as much as possible. This means that the child is able to squirm and crawl out of said seatbelt. I know this would mean absolute chaos and anarchy for my 2y/o. I'd sooner eat my socks than fight with a child to stay seated. If we ever flew with our kids, they'd be in their car seats, no if's, and's, or but's about it. :twocents:

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Not to mention how easy and how much FUN (from a kid's perspective) it is to unbuckle airplane seatbelts. What kid doesn't love to play with levers?

In this instance, the child is over 2, so there's not an option of being a lap baby. That means the parents can try to keep the kid contained on their own, or let the car seat do it for them.

If they don't take the seat on the plane, will they be checking it as luggage? As others have mentioned, loss and damage are possible. Then they'll have the inconvenience of being stranded at the airport.

Take the seat.

Adventuredad said:

Kids who are raised to behave fine outside the plane will be just fine.

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That assumption shows just how little experience with children other than your own you actually have, and I find it extremely offensive.

As for your opinion of the safety of unrestrained children on the plane, in my opinion a child is far more valuable than a coffee pot, but those are required to be secured.

skaterbabscpst said:

That assumption shows just how little experience with children other than your own you actually have, and I find it extremely offensive.

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He's smug and annoying, don't take it personally.

I just ignored that part of his comment because he clearly doesn't have a clue. Most people who aren't blessed with spirited kids don't - it's not his fault he wasn't lucky enough to get kids like mine.

skaterbabscpst said:

That assumption shows just how little experience with children other than your own you actually have, and I find it extremely offensive.

As for your opinion of the safety of unrestrained children on the plane, in my opinion a child is far more valuable than a coffee pot, but those are required to be secured.

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Agreed.

Defrost said:

He's smug and annoying, don't take it personally.

I just ignored that part of his comment because he clearly doesn't have a clue. Most people who aren't blessed with spirited kids don't - it's not his fault he wasn't lucky enough to get kids like mine.

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:sarcasitc-bow:

It goes beyond "spirited kids", actually. Not everyone who flies with a child IS flying with a child who has been "raised to behave fine outside the plane"; some parents are flying with their own children who they themselves have not raised to behave "well", some are flying with foster children, adopted children, children in transition, some are flying with children who are not spirited but who have emotional difficulties in all situations, some are flying with children who are reasonable, thoughtful, rational beings, generally a pleasure to be with, but who today got up on the wrong side of the bed, didn't get enough sleep, have a painful cramp in their sides, just remembered that they left their favorite stuffed bear in the hotel room, are travelling to their grandmother's funeral, are being shuttled from dad's house where he's been saying how terrible mom is to mom's house where she has a new husband... everyone has a story, everyone has a moment. Every time you see a child "behaving badly", you're seeing a single moment for that child and that family, and you cannot reasonably make up an entire backstory to support your own judgemental moment about it.

For that matter, the same goes for adults behaving badly. Adventuredad- are you having a bad day? Do you want to talk about it? ;-)

As for flying and carseats! I think the size where it makes sense from a pure safety point of view is quite a lot smaller than for cars, but up to that size (which seems to be around 30-40lbs, and age 3-5), using a carseat on the plane does add some significant safety, in the event of turbulence and, especially, in the event of ground or very low level flying incidents- a child restrained only at the soft-tissue of the belly is going to fare quite a bit worse than an adult in a lap belt or a child in a 5pt harness if the plane skids off the end of the runway and noses into the berm at moderate to high speeds.

I've flown quite a few times with my kids, and I've never taken their car seats onto the airplane. I check them, in their own carrying bags (I would never check a car seat without providing my own bag -- I've seen plenty of car seats sitting out on the tarmac in the rain.), or in the case of international travel, rent/borrow suitable legal car seats at my destination.

I agree with Adventuredad that flying is an extremely safe activity, and I feel no need to have my kids strapped into car seats while on an airplane. I suspect going to the playground is more dangerous than flying.

My kids don't have trouble sleeping on the plane without having their car seats with them, and I try to avoid using car seats, strollers, etc. as ways to control my children's behavior anyway. (Not saying I disapprove of other people doing so, it's just a choice I've made in my parenting.)

Yes, my son did try to unbuckle his seatbelt umpteen times on our most recent flight together, when he was about 21 months old. I told him no umpteen times, held the buckle in my hand, and distracted him with other activities. My daughter, who was about to turn four at the time, had a major issue with our seating arrangements, but didn't try to unbuckle her seat belt. I would characterize both of my children as being highly spirited.

One major advantage of not lugging car seats onto the plane is that you have a lot more space without them.

I remember when I was a kid in the 1970's, there wasn't any emphasis on staying buckled in during the flight. My brother and I used to roam the aisles during transatlantic flights, which were usually much less crowded than they are today. It was a great deal of fun!

Qarin said:

It goes beyond "spirited kids", actually. Not everyone who flies with a child IS flying with a child who has been "raised to behave fine outside the plane"; some parents are flying with their own children who they themselves have not raised to behave "well", some are flying with foster children, adopted children, children in transition, some are flying with children who are not spirited but who have emotional difficulties in all situations, some are flying with children who are reasonable, thoughtful, rational beings, generally a pleasure to be with, but who today got up on the wrong side of the bed, didn't get enough sleep, have a painful cramp in their sides, just remembered that they left their favorite stuffed bear in the hotel room, are travelling to their grandmother's funeral, are being shuttled from dad's house where he's been saying how terrible mom is to mom's house where she has a new husband... everyone has a story, everyone has a moment. Every time you see a child "behaving badly", you're seeing a single moment for that child and that family, and you cannot reasonably make up an entire backstory to support your own judgemental moment about it.

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And sometimes they're just excited to be on a plane.

skueppers said:

My kids don't have trouble sleeping on the plane without having their car seats with them, and I try to avoid using car seats, strollers, etc. as ways to control my children's behavior anyway. (Not saying I disapprove of other people doing so, it's just a choice I've made in my parenting.)

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Having a kid in a car seat on a plane isn't a way to "control their behavior." It's a way to make them comfortable and keep them happy. My kid (and many others out there) don't view airplane seats as the kind of chair they need to STAY in. It's more like a chair at home that they are free to get in and out of whenever they want.

Kids know that they have to sit in one place in the car, and having a car seat helps them understand that on an airplane, too. My kid has never once tried to get out of his car seat on a plane--just like he doesn't try in the car. The one time he flew without a seat, he was pretty good, but I did have to keep him from unbuckling MANY times and trying to get up (at inappropriate times) now and then.

On planes, there are many times when it is not ok for a kid to be out of his/her seat. Even when it is "ok," there's not really anywhere to go. Aisles are tiny, and people are crabby.

LISmama810 said:

Having a kid in a car seat on a plane isn't a way to "control their behavior." It's a way to make them comfortable and keep them happy.

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Exactly - it's about setting them up for success. :thumbsup: My kids could behave on a plane and I could spend the entire flight ensuring that even without carseats, but if I know bringing a carseat would make it easier for them to behave and easier for me to ensure that, so why not?

It all depends on the circumstance - most parents don't think about how having a carseat on the plane could make things easier for them. They just focus on lugging it around the airport and installing it, without considering what's going to happen after they get on the plane and they're just sitting there for hours on end.

LISmama810 said:

Having a kid in a car seat on a plane isn't a way to "control their behavior."

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It may not be for you, but several people on this thread have said things like, "the parents can try to keep the kid contained on their own, or let the car seat do it for them," "I'd sooner eat my socks than fight with a child to stay seated," and "I have heard that carseats are also great to keep the todlers under control." All of those statements sound to me like comments about controlling the children's behavior by keeping them strapped into a car seat. Again, I'm not criticizing anyone who makes that choice, it's just not my personal choice. That's all I was saying.

LISmama810 said:

It's a way to make them comfortable and keep them happy.

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And if that's how your kid feels about it, then that's great! My kids don't like being in car seats, so if I were to require them to sit in a car seat on an airplane, it would be either because I felt strongly that it was safer, which I don't, or because I thought it would be more convenient for me, which I view as irrelevant.

LISmama810 said:

My kid (and many others out there) don't view airplane seats as the kind of chair they need to STAY in. It's more like a chair at home that they are free to get in and out of whenever they want.

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My kids certainly didn't grasp at first that they were expected to stay in their airplane seats; my younger one still doesn't. I view it as a learning experience. Again, I think this is one of those times when parents do things differently depending on their values and parenting choices. No harm in that!

LISmama810 said:

Having a kid in a car seat on a plane isn't a way to "control their behavior." It's a way to make them comfortable and keep them happy. My kid (and many others out there) don't view airplane seats as the kind of chair they need to STAY in. It's more like a chair at home that they are free to get in and out of whenever they want.

Kids know that they have to sit in one place in the car, and having a car seat helps them understand that on an airplane, too. My kid has never once tried to get out of his car seat on a plane--just like he doesn't try in the car. The one time he flew without a seat, he was pretty good, but I did have to keep him from unbuckling MANY times and trying to get up (at inappropriate times) now and then.

On planes, there are many times when it is not ok for a kid to be out of his/her seat. Even when it is "ok," there's not really anywhere to go. Aisles are tiny, and people are crabby.

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I agree 100%.

When I was teaching Jordan to he needs to stay in Time-out (which he still needs a refresher from time to time ) I would continue to pick him up and put him back on the time out step. Over and Over and Over again. I did not get angry, I was just consistant. How did he react? He SCREAMED his little head off. It didn't bother me. He is entitled to not like it and have emotions about it. But, it was my job to parent him and be consistent. Even now at his age, we still do this in time out from time to time. We are in the privacy of my own home. He isn't disturbing anyone else.

In a restaurant, if he will not remain seated at the table properly, I take him outside the restaurant and put him in time-out. I remove him from the situation. I do not continue to seat him in his booster over and over again. If I did, he would scream, just like in time out and that would disturb other patrons. After we leave the table and he has a time out, when he comes back, he apologizes for his behavior to everyone at our table and at the tables next to us.

I see it unneccessary to teach him the "lesson" that an airplane seat is a seat to stay in at his age/size/maturity level when there are other options available. I could not removed him from the situation like in the restaurant, because there is no place to go. I could try to sit him over and over again in the seat, and rebuckle him umpteen times, but he would get emotional and scream. This would disturb other passengers. So, why *teach* him that an airplane seat is a seat to stay in, when I could *show* him, simply by bringing his carseat. He is used to his carseat, knows that he can't get out of it, and sleeps well in it. For MY son, not bringing his seat would the the irresponsible thing to do, from a safety standpoint, from an emotional wellbeing standpoint, and from a passenger courtesy standpoint. By the time he is old enough to be in a booster seat in the car, he will have had enough flight experience and have the maturity to stay in a plane seat without it being a lesson learned with headaches to go around.

When I flew with him when he was 2 1/2 years, I installed his seat rearfacing (as usual). The flight attendant came by and told me that I should turn his seat around forwardfacing because the passenger in front could not put his seat back. I told her (and the passenger in front) that:
1. He was within his rights to ride RFing because he was within the weight limit to do so.
2. He is safer RFing.
3. He rides RFing in the car, so he will be happier RFing on the plane
4. He will not be able to kick the seat in front of him.
5. If i turned him FFing, He would kick the seat in front of him because he is used to having his legs up, he is only 2 years old, and I would have to tell him 500 times to put his feet down and not kick the seat, he would get frustrated and scream and cry in the passenger's ear.
Bottom line "If I turn him FFing, the passenger would get to put his seat back a few inches, but ALL of us would be miserable by the time we land."

He stayed RFing and the flight went great, and when we landed everyone on board was telling me how good he was.

So, what I'm trying to say is that I'm not afraid of disciplining my child, but sometimes it is more easy for everyone to just avoid the need to do so.

and to sum it all up in a neat little package... a child traveling in a carseat on the plane will not get you kicked off a plane. Every story we've heard in the past of a child getting his/her folks kicked off for simply being a kid having a tantrum (which kids will do... especially when not doing something part of the normal routine) has been a kid who was not traveling in a carseat.

I (before I knew better and when I would not have had the money to afford to buy an additional seat for my baby) traveled with a lap baby (Damian... and I was 5 mo pg with Jeffrey... so it was as much fun as it sounds with 2 layovers) ONCE... and, even though I was exceedingly blessed that this was a baby who preferred to sleep with me and preferred any type of movement to go to sleep over being still, so he literally fell asleep during takeoff both times and woke up upon landing both times and was a very easy traveller, I would never EVER do it again... even if you paid me.

I was lucky because... Jeffrey... had it been him... at that age he was a hot space heater of a child who preferred to fall asleep on hard floor or in his bed... depending on his mood... seriously... he'd come out from his bed... refuse to be held, and put himself to sleep in the middle of the living room floor just as calmly as an adult would go to their bed.

he was a little space heater, so if you had to hold him when he was sleeping for very long, you would begin to sweat... and he was a sweater, too (person who sweats... not that fuzzy shirt), so he would sweat on you, too.

He was also a big mover when he was asleep and not in his carseat, so you'd have this wiggly blob of a thing on you sweating and feeling like he was 104* (to this day, he's still that way, but not quite as hot)

Not a way to travel....


And Ruthie... OMG... that child would not, could not, and has NEVER fell asleep being held in front of me... now she's fallen asleep in a carrier, in a sling, and that's been front, sideways, and on my back... but being held in arms like that... never...

she was one who preferred her own crib as an infant (which, given we had cats when we had her was a good thing... she was nice and protected from them while they got used to her) and who had to be just so when falling asleep... in carseat (but not infant bucket), in crib, or in stroller lying flat.

She would have likely been screaming and pitching fits and going nuts. She was, until she stopped napping, and even until this fall, the baby who most wanted and craved routine.... not structure... because god knows she didn't do everything at the same time everyday... but the same things happening in the same order. It made her feel secure.

Jeffrey was that angel baby type who did everything by the clock and you could set your watch by him...

Not miss grump.

I think the plane would have kicked me off if I had her with me.

So basically, that trip taught me... while it may be doable once in awhile (the frequent flyer man next to me seemed to think it a miracle the boy slept and was doing anything and everything for me to keep him that way, so that must be an indication of a pattern), NEVER EVER to do it again.

Heck, just traveling now... if I took the kids... I'd want the boys in separate rows... or in the row in front of me (so they couldn't kick me when they argued)... and even then... I'd probably give them extra benadryl and go out and get them each a nintendo ds.

and Ruthie... in the carseat... or hogtied.