LATCH vs ISOFIX

NannyMom

Well-known member
If I've read things on here correctly, ISOFIX is the European version of LATCH. Correct?

Is there anything different about them? DIfferent weight limits?
 
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snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I don't know if ISOFIX has weight limits on it or not.

The primary difference between LATCH and ISOFIX is that ISOFIX seats have rigid anchors - US and CDN seats have the lower anchors on a strap for most seats. (There are a couple of harnessed seats that have had rigid anchors - think clek oobr type, except on an infant seat - they're spaced 11" and there's no adjusting, just snap on and go.)

European vehicles also don't have top tethers, so ISOFIX is referring specifically to the rigid anchors and the seats basically just snap in to the vehicle.

Safety wise, I believe that there has been some research showing rigid LATCH seats perform better, but I'm not sure how substantial a difference it is. Rigid LATCH never took off in North America because vehicle manufacturers varied where they placed the lower anchors in vehicles - they're all a standard 11" apart, but some are deep in the seat bite, some are up 1" above the seat bite, some are a tiny bit forward of the seat bite... so basically, there is enough variation in terms of where the anchors are in relation to the seat bite, that rigid latch would have a lot of compatibility issues in US vehicles.

So yes, it's kind of like the European version of LATCH, except there is no top tether component and the seats themselves have rigid anchors as opposed to anchors on the end of a flexible length of webbing like you see on most seats here. :thumbsup:

(I just re-read your question and realized I gave you way more info than you asked for, but eh, it's typed now and maybe it'll be interesting? :eek:)
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
Thanks for all the extra info.

I saw a car yesterday that said "isofix" on the seats (kind of how we'd have the latch buttons on the seat back). But it did have top tethers. It was a toyota camry....not sure what year.

Now I'm confused :confused:
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
Thanks for all the extra info.

I saw a car yesterday that said "isofix" on the seats (kind of how we'd have the latch buttons on the seat back). But it did have top tethers. It was a toyota camry....not sure what year.

Now I'm confused :confused:

LATCH and ISOFIX were used interchangeably for a time in the US- more commonly with foreign cars. Someone posted an older SRN update recently that talked about the change to officially call it LATCH. In terms of US seats and vehicles, LATCH and ISOFIX are the same.
 

SusanMae

Senior Community Member
My mom's Toyota Highlander has "ISOFIX" on the tags that label where the lower anchors are, but it has top tether anchors too. So maybe Toyota labels them with only ISOFIX tags for both the Euro and American markets--must save them what less than a $1 per car.

Susan
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
Thanks.

My 2008 Sienna doesn't have isofix tabs. So I guess that's something TOyota changed recently.

I just didn't know it was ever called isofix in the US :)
 

lenats31

New member
European vehicles also don't have top tethers, so ISOFIX is referring specifically to the rigid anchors and the seats basically just snap in to the vehicle.

Actually this is not true. It is just that only one car seat has the traditional top tether strap as known in the USA: The Britax Duo Plus. The rest of them have a steel leg (footprop), that goes from the base of the seat to the car floor.

Duo Plus:

http://www.bylow.dk/bylowweb/default.asp?page=548

Britax Isofix seat with footprop:

Safefix:
http://www.preciouslittleone.com/acatalog/BRSFX052570.html

One primary reason that USA has flexiable LATCH and top tethers is because Standards Australia (yes Australia) claimed that this combination would do a better job at protecting children in cars than the rigid ISOFIX system and for a fraction of the cost. Now they want ISOFIX, but it has taken them over 10 years so far to implement the system.:thumbsdown:

Crash test of the Duo Plus without the top tether strap installation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC_heu8d-Z0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1GYqgvBWTw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKuqHPCcu7k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWgnuTH6mqQ&feature=related

List of cars with top tether anchors:
http://www.britax.co.uk/images/stories/Britax_Duo_Plus_ISOFIX_List.pdf
Lena
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Wow Lena, thanks for all that info. So the untethered seats, did they have the foot prop in use? I didn't realize they made seats with foot props for ff'ing as well.

Very interesting about the history of the flexible webbing, it's a different story than what I've heard before, but it would make sense.

I do have a question - do you know if ISOFIX has weight limits in Europe?

You know what they say about ASSuming, lol, I knew that European seats didn't have top tethers so I didn't think the vehicles had top tether anchors. Apparently I was wrong on that too since one seat does have top tethers. :eek:

(Is it true that the seatbelts there don't lock though and that built in lock-offs have to be included on seats? I figured I might as well ask. :thumbsup: )
 

lenats31

New member
Wow Lena, thanks for all that info. So the untethered seats, did they have the foot prop in use? I didn't realize they made seats with foot props for ff'ing as well.

Very interesting about the history of the flexible webbing, it's a different story than what I've heard before, but it would make sense.

I do have a question - do you know if ISOFIX has weight limits in Europe?

You know what they say about ASSuming, lol, I knew that European seats didn't have top tethers so I didn't think the vehicles had top tether anchors. Apparently I was wrong on that too since one seat does have top tethers. :eek:

(Is it true that the seatbelts there don't lock though and that built in lock-offs have to be included on seats? I figured I might as well ask. :thumbsup: )


Hiya,

Yes, the ISOFIX forwardfacing seats except boosters have the leg.

The "history" of top tether belt system in the USA originates from Standards Australia themselves. They and most Australian parents believe they have the safest car seats in the world. What they don´t know is how much the rest of the world has developed their child safety systems. Top tethers aren´t bad at all - only if they stall the development of child safety seats, which is the case in Australia. Luckily this has not happend in the rest of the world even tough we have adopted the top tether idea and implemented it into our safety systems. (sorry the little rant)

Isofix has the same weight limit as LATCH 40 lbs, but I THINK they are planing to test it to 55 lbs. I have read that somewhere. However this is because EU is seriously looking at making FF car seats for 0-4 year old children illigal and make RFing for the 0-4 year-olds mandatory. Some of the RFing seats go up 55 lbs RFing and 46" in child height.

It is true that in some cars seatbelts don´t lock. So all the car seats here have 2-3 built-in belt lock-offs.

Britax Duo Plus (the only top tether seat in EU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcyNcVAr4Aw&feature=related

Britax Explorar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUbQ2bfr-xE&NR=1

Britax King Plus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWcXA0fYgpo

My very own car seat:
August2008C001.jpg


Juni2008C038.jpg



Lena
 

Adventuredad

New member
Thanks for all the great info Lena! The Australians are funny, do you know there is not one single Australian child with a neck injury? They claim forward facing at 9 months is just as safe as rear facing.....:D

I can confirm that EU is working on increasing limits. They have apparently not decided but are talking about 22 kg (48.5) lbs. Haven't heard about the rear facing rules but find that to be far into the future. Europe outside Scandinavia really struggle with car seat safety. Hanging out in southern countries such as Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain, is just depressing regarding car seat safety IMHO.

I love your MT! Your color is really popular with foreigners, I've sent quite a few seats in that color abroad.
 
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horsesitaly

Senior Community Member
Yup, here in Italy I see kids all the time unrestrained. The law about child restraint until age 12 is largely ignored. And I have to say the driving here is pretty scary!
 

lenats31

New member
Thanks for all the great info Lena! The Australians are funny, do you know there is not one single Australian child with a neck injury? They claim forward facing at 9 months is just as safe as rear facing.....:D

I can confirm that EU is working on increasing limits. They have apparently not decided but are talking about 22 kg (48.5) lbs. Haven't heard about the rear facing rules but find that to be far into the future. Europe outside Scandinavia really struggle with car seat safety. Hanging out in southern countries such as Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain, is just depressing regarding car seat safety IMHO.

I love your MT! Your color is really popular with foreigners, I've sent quite a few seats in that color abroad.

1. , do you know there is not one single Australian child with a neck injury?

Ha, ha, and it gets even better, because that statement originates from someone (Australian) who has received an award for all her good work in this field. Please tell me if I should laugh or cry over this? I think I´ll do both:

Cry from laughing:D



I can confirm that EU is working on increasing limits. They have apparently not decided but are talking about 22 kg (48.5) lbs.

That sounds great. But not as great as 55 lbs:)


Haven't heard about the rear facing rules but find that to be far into the future.

Oh they have had a few meetings already. The next one is coming up on December 8. I think that the plan so far is to phase out FF seats and implement RF seats over a period of 5 years or so. But nothing confirmed yet.

It is a struggle outside of Scandinavia. And God bless your soul if you try to inform people about the increased safety of RF seats. You are just bound to get a verbal slap for it. Well not all people but a lot.

I love your MT! Your color is really popular with foreigners, I've sent quite a few seats in that color abroad.[/

Thanks, I prefer that colour too. I emailed Babyland in Malmö prior to going there to get it. I asked them to store one for me. The most important thing for me was not the colour. That was getting an MT home with me - any MT. I wrote that in the email too. Luckily they had the marcel one in the store.

Adventuredad: Who do you know in the car seat business?

Lena:)
 

Adventuredad

New member
Yeah, the Australian thing is quite entertaining......

I don't think they've decided on any increased limits for isofix yet, things are moving slowly in EU. I do hope it's higher than 22 kg.

Phasing out RF during 5 years or so sounds like a smart idea. Should be plenty of time to educate people about all the benefits.

The MT is an awesome seat. It's a bit expensive but not when one considers it can be used from 6 months until 9 yers or so

I know a couple of people. I speak regularly with someone at a crash test institute and he ahs very interesting things to say. All his work is confidential so he never mentions brands etc. but he has been around for a long time and seen a lot so what he says is quite important.

I know another person who has worked for several car seat manufactures and actually helped design seats. He knows so much I feel like a virgin talking to him. Almost embarrassing. Last week I saw him in a car seat shop and we talked for an hour or so. So funny, suddenly he rips the cover off a Britax Hi-Way, points to the label and says: "I helped design the base which is tehesame as the Roundabout which benefits are mainly....." Just fascinating stuff if you're into car seat porn as I am (and most on this board):D:thumbsup:

I plan on having him as a guest many times for podcasts etc. on my upcoming car seat site/project.

Where did you pick up all your guru knowledge?:thumbsup:

Nice weekend!
 

lenats31

New member
I got it from ANEC, reports of crash test results etc.

Meeting of the GRSP Informal Group on child restraint systems (CRS)
The 5th meeting of the Informal Group, which is developing a new CRS Regulation for integral harness Isofix child restraints, took place on 2 September 2008 in Vienna.

CI/ANEC’s main target is to establish a standard that supplies high levels of protection, and offers an easy to understand classification system. The CI/ANEC representative Ronald Vroman attended this meeting and raised again the issue of the 4th anchorage point which is a major condition for universal rearward facing (RWF) transport of children in cars. ANEC is very pleased to see the good outcome of the meeting in which it became apparent that the 4th anchorage point is necessary. The CI/ANEC representative also contributed to discussions related to side impact. The next meeting of the Group will take place on 7 October in Brussels.


Protection of children in cars: 6th International Conference
The Munich International Conference on “Protection of children in cars” will be held this year on 4 & 5 December. The conference deals exclusively with the safety of children in cars and is a landmark event. ANEC will participate and present the results of its study into accidents involving restrained children aged three and under.

You can´t read the document about the 5 year period anylonger. or so it appears.

Lena
 

lil96

New member
my $.02, isofix is so much easier than LATCH. I don't understand why they would ever go to LATCH if the biggest problem with seat safety is improper installs. I just snap and bam, these little things go from red to green, I know it it is correctly, no wobbles, no worries. Even my 75 yo sfil can properly install our (ECE)seat. I would never trust him to do that with our Radian... that's the end of my $.02
wait one more thing, I have heard North America does Latch because the car manufacturers have more leeway (sp?) because the seats vary so much from car to car. I don't know if that is true or not though.
 

Adventuredad

New member
I'm a big believer in K.I.S.S, Keep It Simple Stupid, so I think that's a good thing. Especially since an amazing amount of people manage to install seats incorrectly.
 

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