The importance of SAb for kids in carseats

Splash

New member
Okay...

I went out again tonight. I still love the Mazda5 but I don't want to risk it. I can't. If Mazda had a solid A+ record like Volvo or Subaru, it might be different. But let's face it, they've kinda failed recently.

So, the two front runners are now the Hyundai Santa Fe and the Subaru Forester. My dad is in love with the Santa Fe (though he's never been in one! just loves the way they look) and wants me to love it too. I like it, but...

I did like the Forester a lot though. It was physically impossible to get his carseat installed rear facing in the center, which bothers me. It's fine FF, but that's years away. Rear facing he would have to go on the side. I might be able to put his safeseat in there, but that's only for a few more months at the most.

My question is about side airbags and car seats.

SAB don't add to the structural integrity of the car. They prevent your head from pounding into solid steel and cracking open. Right?

So I can see them being a big deal for adult passengers. But a child in a car seat (especially a SIP one) is going to hit the sides of their carseat. Their head will likely never hit the side of the car. Am I right?
So, Charlie is going to be in a harnessed seat for at least 6 more years I would imagine. And once he's FF he can be in the center. After that he would be in a booster, probably also in the center. So in the center side airbags aren't going to matter at all.

But would side airbags make a significant safety difference to a child in a SIP child restraint? Especially rear facing?

I am sold on the Subaru almost. I hate that he has to be outboard, but I can live with it. He would have to be outboard in the Mazda anyway, and he is outboard in the van. It's just that if there is a center seat, I feel the need to use it!

So, do you think going without the SAB for the rear (they are standard in the front) is okay?

I am trying to convince myself it's okay to go without SAB, which I swore I would never ever do again.
 
ADS

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
As you said, adults should get the most benefit. There isn't any data about kids, but I'd guess it would be minimal added protection for rear facing seats because they already provide reasonable side impact protection. For older kids in boosters, it may be pretty significant. For FF kids, it's somewhere in between. SIP features on carseats are nice, but they don't help if the child's head is moving forward and is out of the protection wings- that's when you want curtain airbags, too.

I'd also look at the Honda CR-V and Subaru Legacy i Wagon. Both are around 20k, similar in size to the Forester, have very good crash test results and have side curtain airbags standard. Looks like the Legacy has 0% financing and $1500 cash back, too.
 

Mattypies

New member
Why the CRV?

CPSDarren said:
I'd also look at the Honda CR-V and Subaru Legacy i Wagon. Both are around 20k, similar in size to the Forester, have very good crash test results and have side curtain airbags standard. Looks like the Legacy has 0% financing and $1500 cash back, too.

Darren,

I have been pouring over the informed for life site that you have shared with us and I was wondering why you recommend the Honda CRV. I realize that it falls in the medium category with an overall rating of 78 but the rear impact number is 4.0. The average is 3.0 and the numbers don't really go that high. The accord also scores well but the rear impact number concerns me.

What are your thoughts?

Heather
 

Splash

New member
Rear impact is not that important for kids in carseats. Rear impact (I believe) mostly measures how well the head restraints do.
I don't want the CR-V because you can't put a car seat in the middle. That pretty much closes the deal for me.
The Legacy I am going to look at though.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Splash said:
Rear impact is not that important for kids in carseats. Rear impact (I believe) mostly measures how well the head restraints do.
I don't want the CR-V because you can't put a car seat in the middle. That pretty much closes the deal for me.
The Legacy I am going to look at though.

Splash, I don't get your reasoning above. I look at it this way, any kid in a harnessed seat, whether RF or FF is exponentially safer than someone using just the vehicle's seatbelt. I just don't get why your cocern is about SAB in the rear for Charlie since he is in a BV anyway. I would be more concerned about your safety, since you (and any adult passengers) are the least-safe people in the vehicle, being in just a seatbelt. If you are severely injured and/or die from an accident, then who is Charlie left with?! Just one parent, which is totally NOT cool! If I were you, I would focus on getting the safest car your YOURSELF and realize that Charlie's BV will protect him for years WAY more than you're protected in just a seatbelt. Does this make sense?!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I have a 2006 Legacy Sedan 2.5 GT, the one with the 250hp engine, and I LOVE it! I think Darren is right, it seems bigger inside than my friends Forrester (minus the exra cargo room a wagon has). Also, the Legacy has side curtain airbags for the front and rear-outboard seats, which the Forrester lacks. It's a great vehicle and having AWD is awesome!

HTH!
Amanda
 

Splash

New member
It has side head and torso airbags for the front seat, just not for the back.

I absolutely would not buy one that didn't have them in front. No way no how. Be some pure stroke of luck the vehicle I have now has them (and I was not concerned about them in the least when I bought the car).

What I am thinking out loud about is how much additional safety they will offer, if any, to a child in a rear facing car seat. Once he is FF he can go in the middle, it's just RF that won't work. And once the next kid (if there is one) comes along, (s)he can be outboard rear facing.

We won't have another kid for probably about 3 years. Then 2 years of rear facing (being conservative, hopefully longer!) puts me five years from now. Will I still have this vehicle? Probably. But would I be okay to trade it in at that point? Yes.

So for the backseat, I am more concerned with the structural inegrity moreso than side airbags I think. Because I don't see a kid in a rear facing BV gaining an enormous amount of protection from them.

Does your 2006 Legacy have SAB for front and back? I know 2007 has them in the back, but not sure on 2006. How well does a carseat install in the middle?
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Mattypies said:
Darren,

I have been pouring over the informed for life site that you have shared with us and I was wondering why you recommend the Honda CRV. I realize that it falls in the medium category with an overall rating of 78 but the rear impact number is 4.0. The average is 3.0 and the numbers don't really go that high. The accord also scores well but the rear impact number concerns me.

What are your thoughts?

Heather


Categories aside, most vehicles on the first couple pages at informedforlife.org are very safe overall. In the case of someone buying a small or midsized SUV, the CR-V is one of the better choices and it has all the safety features standard. That's a big plus when you try to find one on a lot. I'd prefer a minivan, Highlander or Pilot, but those models don't appeal to everyone.

The rear impact number is of least concern to me. It is also a very small contribution to the overall risk score, since fatal rear impacts are relatively uncommon. The IIHS rear impact rating is not a barrier impact test like a frontal or side impact crash test. It is only a test of a vehicle seat on a crash sled. It is meant to determine protection from whiplash type injuries. Unfortunately, there is no way they can test every seating position of every trim level for every size passenger with every possible seat and head restraint adjustment. Instead, they use an average male dummy and adjust the head restraint to a typical level and may only test certain seating positions in one trim level of a vehicle.

It is my belief that if you are able to carefully adjust your seat back and head restraint to a good level right behind your head, you may be better protected in a crash than the test results would indicate. Similarly, if you don't adjust them at all, you could fare much worse. Also, as Splash said, the rear crash test is not applicable to children in restraints that have a shell or high back that provides their own support for the head and back.

For a parent that would only have one passenger in a rear-facing BV during ownership of a vehicle, I would agree that side curtain airbags in the back seat would not be of major benefit. The question is whether there might also be older passengers in back regularly, or if the vehicle might be kept long enough for the child to gain more benefit from the side airbags.
 

Splash

New member
There won't be other passengers regularly. If we need to move people, it would be in the minivan.
One of us might sit back there with him, but then in the middle since there is no way to install the BV in the middle. Once he is FF, he will be in the center.

I actually do want another minivan believe it or not. I just can't get past the feeling that it is major overkill to have two minivans in a one child family. But I like minivans, and they are definitely very safe.
 

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