Help - older vehicle with no anchors...

U

Unregistered

Guest
Well, I had just finally convinced myself that I could afford to get a Regent for my DD who at 19 months is over 31 lbs already, but then I see that it has to be tethered if the child is over 50 lbs. I drive a 1991 Toyota Previa, and it has no anchors. I called the dealership, and they said they only have retrofit kits for vehicles as far back as 1996. :( So now what do I do? I looked at a carseat compatibility list, and it repeatedly lists seats installed in Previas as tethered, sometimes to the anchors for the rear seats. Is this not safe? They are marked as being a good install. Is it possible these people are getting anchors installed from someplace besides the dealer? The Britax manual says "WARNING: Attach the Versa-tether only to tether anchors identified by your vehicle manufacturer as tether anchorage points. Use of other locations is not approved or permitted.", so I would assume attaching it to a seat anchor is not safe. Are there any aftermarket products I could get and have installed or am I just out of luck and have to get a different seat? I'm really bummed right now.

Margaret
 
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Splash

New member
Well... they can probably drill through your vehicle sub floor. Likely to be expensive though.
You might do better calling a Canadian dealership. Top tethers have been required in Canada for a long time, and someone there might be able to help you more.
 

scatterbunny

New member
Hopefully someone here with a LATCH manual can help you. It doesn't sound right that you can't get anchors installed in your van. :(

In the meantime, though--it's fine to tether a seat installed in the middle row to a seatbelt in the third row. My 1994 Mazda MPV can only have two tether anchors installed, outboard in the third row. My dd's seat is installed in the middle row, passenger/center (it's a two-seater bench offset towards the driver's side, so the passenger side is really the center of the vehicle, if that makes sense). I have her seat tethered to the third row center lapbelt. There's no use for a lapbelt anyway, so it works great. I'd never put a person there.

Picture of how I have it tethered:

787b0489.jpg
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re:

Well dang, I was hoping someone would have more info! I talked to someone who worked at the canadian dealership I called, and he said he has the same van and same seat configuration and he hooks his tether to the floor hooks for the fold up rear seats. It will be way off center, though, the hooks are in the middle, and the captains chairs are in the same position as the front seats. So I guess this is what I will do unless anyone else has has a better idea.

Thanks Scatterbunny and splash!
 

scatterbunny

New member
The anchors for the third row seats should work since they are rated to hold down heavy seats. Usually we are told to not use anything not designated as a tether anchor spot (i.e. cargo hooks) because they aren't rated to hold back thousands of pounds of crash forces.

Post a new thread asking for tether anchor information for the 1991 Previa, maybe someone can look it up in the LATCH manual then. :)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re:

Well, I got it and installed it (thank goodness for the online instruction manual, because there wasn't one included) and it looks good to me. The recline bar is on, and I was able to do the long belt path, and I didn't even have to use the locking clip because the belt was the PERFECT length! I almost thought it wouldn't work, it was SOOO close. The seat doesn't budge a millimeter. The tether looks ok, but I need to hook down my other stuff on the back so it doesn't slide around into it now.
Katy870.jpg
Katy868.jpg

Katy865.jpg
 

scatterbunny

New member
Looks great! :) I'm so glad you were able to get it installed well. Your dd is a cutie--love her curls!

The manual might be under the cover (in the seating area). It's usually attached to the seat somehow.
 

Dreaming_of_Speed

Senior Community Member
Its nuts they dont go back as far as 91 considering car seats were being made then with tethers. I would contact toyota themselves (not the dealership) and ask them.

Are you using the seat hook as the tether? I would not do this, as heavy as the seat maybe your daughter will create a lot more force in an accident that what the connector is meant to hold. The mechanic who said he does this, probably is not a CPST and is making a mistake himself.

I would use scatterbunny's technique. Even if you have shoulder belts, you can do it if you have a locking clip. Simply pull tether to the seat belt and then put the locking clip on like you normally would then tighten up the tether until its tight. I do this for my FFing marathon in my car b/c Subaru doesnt have the parts number for a tether for my car (they make them and it came with one but that disappeared years ago and now i need one and no one has the number)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re:

But isn't the seat hook designed to hold the seat, plus a person sitting on it? The two sections of rear seat are meant to seat 3 adults, and there is only a lap belt in the middle, would that really be less force than the tether from a carseat that is also belted in? ( not sarcasm, I am genuinely clueless to this type of thing) I didn't go with the seat belt thing because I don't normally have the back seat down and there's no cargo room that way. I guess I don't really need it tethered at all right now, since I have the long belt path and recline bar installed, right? Mayre I'll luck out and get a newer vehicle before she hits 50 lbs.

Oh, there is definitely no instruction manual. :(
 

Dreaming_of_Speed

Senior Community Member
In an accident the seat receives little force b/c the person no top of it is strapped in with the seat belt which is bolted to the frame, not the seat (or more to the frame than the seat depending on the seat style) The bolt is only meant to hold about 500 pounds max, i dont know exactly what kind of force a car seat makes on its tether but i assume its more than that. If you watch the crash testing videos, you can see how the seat bends forward quite a bit pulling the tether. A tether that breaks loss can become one heck of projectile and whip around the car (think of snapping a rubberband. The tether would stretch then be released which the bracket broke and snap back towards the seat)

I would have someone with a LATCH manual check that you really cant have tethers added, some dealerships are clueless about this sort of thing.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re:

So it's ok to attach a tether to a seat belt that is attached to a seat that is attached to a seat anchor, but I can't attach the tether straight to the seat anchor?

And if the bolt that holds the seatbelt is only good to 500 lbs (which is damn scary, I weight 250) and the tether would have more force than that, why is it safe to attach the tether to the seatbelt?

Doesn't the seatbelt holding the seat down in the first place absorb a lot of the force, especially with the long belt path? I just can't see how a tether anchor could be stronger than the seat anchor. I'm starting to think I should have gotten the dang Apex, since the tether is not required on it at all.

I called Toyota again, and they are going to have to local dealer call me and apparantly there is something they can try (she wouldn't tell me what exactly, but they'll probably tell me to hook it onto the seat anchor again), but there is definitely no anchor retrofit kit available. Maybe there used to be, but not now.

Scatterbunny - I see you're in the Pacific NW! I'm in Vancouver, WA :) I usually don't see many people from this area on message boards.
 

Dreaming_of_Speed

Senior Community Member
Seat belts stretch when force is applied to them and are unlikely to break. The seat belt will absorb the crash forces before it will affect the seat itself the seat bolt has no stretch to it, it can only take so much before it splits in two.

I find it hard to believe that there are absolutely no retrofitabilites! Our beretta was a PITA to get tethers added to (they had to weld in an entire support beam to install them across the seat back) but they were able to do it and its a 91. My 92 came with predrilled holes and a tether in the glove compartment. Many car seats of the time were already coming with top straps (as they called them then). How strange toyota doesnt retrofit them!
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re:

Holy cow, how much did that cost?! It sounds expensive. :( I really couldn't technically afford to get the Regent, but I think it was a good choice, at least I did until all this tether confusion came up.

Now I also see that most tether anchors in vehicles are only good to 40 or 48 lbs, so using a tether attached to it's anchor after 50 lbs is technically a no-no. Toyota doesn't have a limit, but I certainly can't afford a new van!

I'm just feeling really grumpy right now. :(
 

scatterbunny

New member
There's a few threads here quoting what SafetyBeltSafeUSA has to say on tethering beyond 40/48 pounds. Basically it's a parental decision but the risks, IMO, are minimal. IF a tether anchor were to fail in a crash it would be AFTER the majority of crash forces have dissipated. It would have already done it's job in reducing the child's head excursion. And chances are it wouldn't fail entirely, but would only dimple the metal around the tether anchor. Of course I'm only speculating. But there are threads here with links to SafetyBeltSafeUSA's information on tether anchor weight limits, and after reading them I am convinced it is perfectly safe to use tether anchors beyond their current weight limits.
 

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