Radian "over the top" rule/ harness room Q?

NannyMom

Well-known member
We need a narrow seat for a 3 across. We figured J (stats in my siggy) could use the Radian. I was told the Radian is outgrown when the tops of the ears get to the top of the seat shell. Harness height doesn't matter because they allow you to go over the top slots. I saw a comment in someone's post that their child has no more harness room. IE- the harness isn't long enough to allow the child to keep growing. Should I worry about this? J is dead even, sometimes a hair over the 2nd to top slots on the GN (w/o a sweatshirt). Should we change the plans??

Our thoughts had been....
A- HBB (or backless :( )
J- Radian
Baby- SS1

When Baby outgrows SS1, put baby in RF Radian, J in HBB (by then he may have outgrown his GNs harnessed), and A in booster
Maybe we should be thinking GN for J, HBB for A, and RF Radian for Baby?
 
ADS

Kat_Momof3

New member
depends on the build of the child... sorry, but it's true.

Jeffrey was 1" over the top slots and his ears were just below the top of the shell when he was 60lbs and had no slack left

here is the pic... he was also getting too broad for the seat.
JinRadian108.jpg


I swear... the jacket is super thin and passes the "check without the jacket, don't loosen straps, put back in" test.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Apparently some Canadian models came with a very short harness. I'm not sure if that's what you read about.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with the shoulders going over the top slot even if the manual allows it.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
Frankly, I'm not comfortable with the shoulders going over the top slot even if the manual allows it.

Ditto. The seat might be "unique" enough, but my child has an actual spine (unlike the crash test dummy). Until more thorough information debunks the traditional teaching that the harness must be AT or ABOVE when forward-facing, I would not rely on this except during an emergency without a safer alternative. My child's real spine just isn't "unique" enough for me to trust the manual on this yet. Because Russ' explanation doesn't seem to hold water against what we're traditionally taught about spinal compression -- which leads to paralysis, etc....

I use our Rade Safer Travel Vest between 2 other seats in 3 across configurations. It's no wider than the child. Top tether needed for lap only belts. In a van, an unused/buckled/locked seatbelt in the row behind is preferable to not tethering.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
Apparently some Canadian models came with a very short harness. I'm not sure if that's what you read about.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with the shoulders going over the top slot even if the manual allows it.

Ditto. The seat might be "unique" enough, but my child has an actual spine (unlike the crash test dummy). Until more thorough information debunks the traditional teaching that the harness must be AT or ABOVE when forward-facing, I would not rely on this except during an emergency without a safer alternative. My child's real spine just isn't "unique" enough for me to trust the manual on this yet. Because Russ' explanation doesn't seem to hold water against what we're traditionally taught about spinal compression -- which leads to paralysis, etc....

I think I may be in the minority among techs around here. I'd actually be okay with the child's shoulders a bit over the top slots in the Radian- especially if it's tethered. Maybe not 4", but I'd be comfortable with 1-2" for sure. I used to be a huge skeptic on that stance and in the past I would have been in complete agreement with you. The spinal compression/neck loading risk is so ingrained, but it's not just Russ spouting his usual spin. The explanation by Dave/Director of Engineering in the SSK chat was really quite convincing-

skipspin -> Regarding the Radian: Why does SK allow the shoulders to go over the top slots when FF, when no other manufacturer allows it?

Carseatengr -> The critical consideration is the angle of the shoulder belt relative to the spine. in the case of the Radian, given the occupant height limits, this angle will never become an issue. So in order to accommodate the very small percentage of occupants that fall into this limited category (shoulder slightly above the 5th harness slot yet not exceeding our height limit) we allow this belting configuration.

Carseatengr -> Also FYI we test with the H-III 10 yr old ATD weighted to 85 lbs using the NCAP sled pulse and see no adverse spinal loading

bensmom -> When you say shoulder belt, are you talking about the harness as it goes over the child's shoulders?

Carseatengr -> Yes

crunchierthanthou -> is there a maximum amount over the top harness slot- more than just top of ears even with the top of the shell?

Carseatengr-> No maximum so long as the ears are not over the seat back height

wendytthomas -> What angle is important when looking at the harness and the spine? The Radian's straps are very close to the neck with the SKJP chest clip. Is this changed if a different clip is used? Is the angle important enough that even a small change could matter?

wendytthomas -> And does it matter for broad or narrow framed children?

Carseatengr -> The exact angle is in the range of 25 degrees or more off of horizontal (perpendicular to the seat back) - I want to stress this is an approximation - we base our allowance upon test results using an ATD that is too large for the Radian

Carseatengr -> Re the Chest clip - it is used for the positioning of the harness straps - a wider one most likely would not affect the test results

I've also read here (a post by Wendy maybe?) that the spinal compression risk is greater in small children. If we're looking at a child who is about to outgrow the Radian, that risk from having the shoulders above the harness slots is probably minimal to start with. It was only recently that Britax added the "or shoulders above the top harness slots" to the ff height limit. Before that, the MA had the same rule as the Radian. I'm choosing to trust SSK's testing and Dave's explanation. It's not just Russ saying "sure, as far over as you like. do what you want." We already know that the Radian does very well in head excursion testing. Is it that big of a jump to accept that there really is no adverse loading by going above the top slots in this seat? :twocents:
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I would not be comfortable using it regularly with the child's shoulders way above the slots, but I'd also be comfortable not obsessively measuring every single day as my child gets closer to the top strap slots.

(Of course, I expect that my child will be somewhere around 7.5-8 when she gets to the top slots. I'd be comfortable with her in a good booster at that age, so I don't feel the need to get every last day out of a harnessed seat.)
 

tjham

New member
I may have to put my faith in the "over the top slots" rule eventually as my son's truck has a lap belt only in the center back seat.
His girlfriend's two kids (8 and 10) are always in the outboard seats with lap/shoulder belts (no boosters) so center is the only place for my 7 yr old granddaughter, still harnessed in the Radian.
She is about an inch under now, but still growing, of course. ;)

Unless he gets a new truck, I've convinced him to keep her in the Radian as long as possible. Then I guess I'll look into one of those vests, but I know he'll think they are weird. :rolleyes: He said he would just put the 10 yr old in the center.

I mentioned "seat belt symdrome" and he laughed! He said "You're making that up!" :eek:
I said "No. I'm not." He said "I'll bet you'll send me a email about it." I said "Of course I will!"

And I did! :whistle:
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
I tried J in a Radian and he has a few inches to grow before he goes over the top slots. But, that's not installed in a car. I was laoned the SafegaurdGo to try out (I've never seen one....only heard of them on here). I've been away all weekend and didn't get to play with it yet. But...tomorrow I will :)

I did play with installing a Radian today in my van (that won't be where the Radian would be going). It was horrible to try and install! UGH! FF was fine, but RF was terrible...especially w/ LATCH. I gave up :whistle:
 

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