TF Compatability ? from non-tech

ETA: Oops. I meant to change the title of my post b/c it sounds like it's a thread for non-techs only. I meant to write: TF compatability ? from non-tech

I've just read the 3 pages of the TF compatability issues and I can honestly say that it was all "greek" to me.

How can the average, non-tech person understand whether or not the TF or any seat is properly installed? Based on what was on that thread, we really need an expert to install the seats. Yet, it seems difficult to find local sources where there are people that know how to do a proper install.

We are planning on getting the TF for various reasons but now I'm wondering if we're making the right decision. How are we supposed to try out the seat when so many of the on-line companies where the best prices are to be had expect the seat to be returned completely unused (one company even suggests that we put the seat on a couch or carpet & place child in seat to test for compatability)?

Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts based on what I read this evening. I guess what I'm getting at is that if compatability is an issue, it would be good to specify exactly what vehicles the TF (and other seats) might be incompatible with aside from the 03 Ford Explorer. I'm sure there are others besides me now wondering whether they have a good install in their vehicles or are now having 2nd thoughts on this seat.

I never knew it could be so difficult and stressful to pick out a convertible car seat. I am glad, however confusing it can be sometimes, to have this forum to go to.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

I would try to buy one in person or at a on-line store with a return policy. Maybe Target or BRU. Just to try it and then return it if you can find a better deal elsewhere after you know the seat will work for you.

There are many seats out there some will be compatable and others may not be depending on your vehicle, child, needs and how much you are able or want to spend. All seats have to go through the same tests to be sold so they are all considered safe. It is just some seats have different bells and whistles to make them seem better or safer.

As far as compatability goes I would start by asking here if anyone has gotten a good install in x car with it x facing with a child x old. If there are good responses then i'd try it. Granted I would likely try it anyways especially if no-one had tried it.

I recommend for parents to test the movement at the belt path of the seat. You want less then 1" of movement for an acceptable install. When I check I watch the base of the seat to see how much it compress and if the base moves at all. I think pretty much every seat I have installed (or showd to a parent to install and help them through it) i've been able to get a pretty solid install. I have found some that are harder to install but once you figure out the tricks to make it work then it isn't so hard anymore. Finding out tricks for a good install is also reall handy. I like the tips here even though they are for FF of the bite seatbelts the info comes in handy.

I would recommend getting a tech to check your install and you can always ask questions here and post pictures. There are many here who would love to help.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

Thanks Jewels. Your post alone has helped "talk me off the cliff".

If anything, the other thread cemented in my mind that I need to find a tech in San Diego who can assist us.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

MontecitoGal said:

Thanks Jewels. Your post alone has helped "talk me off the cliff".

If anything, the other thread cemented in my mind that I need to find a tech in San Diego who can assist us.

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Glad to have been able to help.

I edited my post, just in case you didn't notice. I added a few things and then noticed that you already posted

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

You can look for a technician in your area here.

There's also a list of techs from this board, here, though there don't seem to be any in San Diego.

I'm in OC and know techs from all over Southern California, but unfortunately none in San Diego. Sorry!

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

We have a TF and have had no problems installing it in any vehicle we've tried it in...2006 Chrysler T&C (bench seat, LATCH), 2008 PT Cruiser, 2004 Toyota Camry. I used LATCH in all installs and have yet to try a seatbelt install which I have heard is more difficult.

The main issue with the install in the thread you read was the ANGLE of the seat, not the install itself. The seat installed, but not at a 45* angle an infant requires. My ds is still rear-facing in his TF, and it's installed at a 35-40* angle in our van.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

What vehicle are you installing it in? There might be someone who has installed in the same one and can tell you how it worked out.

It installed in both of our vehicles nicely. In one vehicle it fits nicer than the Marathon as we can get a 35° recline with the TF vs a 30° recline with the Marathon in the exact same amount of space. Additionally, the base of the Marathon did some crazy compression on that vehicle's seat whereas the TF is much kinder to the seat. I know you didn't mention the Marathon, but it's often a seat that people are considering as well as the TF so I thought I'd mention it since I tried both.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

I helped install a TF in a Honda Accord ('92 or '93). It was difficult, but with two people we managed it. It was rear-facing, I think close to 45*, though the baby is 9 months, and it was quite hard to close the lock-offs, but we did it.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

I'm not a tech...
I have a 13 month old, RF in a True Fit in my '06 Explorer. With LATCH, it's super easy and I got nearly a 45* install with 3 noodles. Decided that was too much and re-installed at 35-40* with 2 noodles. Just last night I installed in in the center with the seat belt, 2 noodles, and about 30* (it may be too upright, but we'll have to see when he sleeps). It was MUCH harder than with LATCH but I managed to get it in, both lock-offs closed over both webbings, and it's just as solid as I had it with LATCH. I wish someone had seen me. I sat on the back of the vehicle seat with both feet in the car seat so I could hold it down while I tightened and moved the seat belt to the right place on the lock-offs. :dizzy:

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

jess71903 said:

I'm not a tech...
I have a 13 month old, RF in a True Fit in my '06 Explorer. With LATCH, it's super easy and I got nearly a 45* install with 3 noodles. Decided that was too much and re-installed at 35-40* with 2 noodles. Just last night I installed in in the center with the seat belt, 2 noodles, and about 30* (it may be too upright, but we'll have to see when he sleeps). It was MUCH harder than with LATCH but I managed to get it in, both lock-offs closed over both webbings, and it's just as solid as I had it with LATCH. I wish someone had seen me. I sat on the back of the vehicle seat with both feet in the car seat so I could hold it down while I tightened and moved the seat belt to the right place on the lock-offs. :dizzy:

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I really hate to say this after your description of getting it in at that 30 degree angle... but the Trufit is not allowed to be any more upright than 35 degrees per the manufacturer.

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

CDNTech said:

I really hate to say this after your description of getting it in at that 30 degree angle... but the Trufit is not allowed to be any more upright than 35 degrees per the manufacturer.

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Honestly though, the difference between 30° and 35° is really barely noticeable. I have a digital angle finder that I used when I installed mine and you could get 31° on top of the cover, then if you removed the cover and measured on the shell, it was 33°-34°. Then child gets in and a bit of weight pushes it to recline a degree or two further (and our install is solid, I can't even push it forward to rebound position). And then due to the shape of foam, etc., depending on where you are on the shell, the angle can be different by a few degrees.

I also did it using the red line, and checking if my red line was 10° off of 45. Until I noticed that my sticker was just *slighty* crooked (the red sticker fits in between 2 raised lines on the shell that are the same colour as the shell). I adjusted my sticker and low and behold it had been 2°-3° off.

Then, take into account that some people are using a photo and the computer to determine their angle. Did they use the rear of the seat? or where the child's back rests? Because both will give you different angle if you use my digital angle finder resting directly on either of those areas. And the angle on top of the cover isn't the same as the angle underneath the cover, and a child will compress the cover.

So, although I realize that Learning Curve says 35° for the True Fit. It all depends on where the heck a person is measuring from, if the vehicle is 100% level on the ground, what tool they are using to determine the angle, etc. 5° can easily be give or take depending on various factors. I almost think Learning Curve says 35° as it gives room for error. If it was so important that this seat be EXACTLY at no less than a true 35°, I'd think they'd be giving you a more exact way to measure than a sticker that can easily be off several degrees.

So, one person's 35° could really be 40°, or heck it could even be 30°, depending on how it's measured and if the child is in the seat or not. I know I've read lots of techs say that you want to make sure you're child's head isn't flopping forward, especially when sleeping, as this for sure means you have the incorrect angle. If the child's head doesn't flop, then it's likely you're at a safe angle.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and one not everybody need share! I'm not recommending ignoring the angle and installing at whatever the heck you want, but I'm not too sure I'd stress about getting exactly 35° since it's not an exact science without better indicators and instruction from the company.

Actually, the manual specifically states that it must be at a 45 degree angle. A few techs on here went to the top people at Compass to get the scoop (because we like the 30 - 45 range) and what we got back was adamant that it could be between 35 - 45 degrees... no more upright than that.

So we stress it for the Trufit because the manufacturer stresses it (35 - 45 degrees only).

CDNTech said:

Actually, the manual specifically states that it must be at a 45 degree angle. A few techs on here went to the top people at Compass to get the scoop (because we like the 30 - 45 range) and what we got back was adamant that it could be between 35 - 45 degrees... no more upright than that.

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Yup, I've been following all of those threads and only bought the seat after I found out it could be installed more upright.

CDNTech said:

So we stress it for the Trufit because the manufacturer stresses it (35 - 45 degrees only).

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And my opinion, stated above, about how difficult it is to actually determine the 35° angle and how easily the angle can change (weight of child, compression of seat pad) still stands.

ETA: and Jen, I kept wondering who this CDNTech person was that had obviously been around for awhile, but I had never seen the username...then I finally read your sig! Glad to know I am not going crazy.

TechnoGranola said:

Yup, I've been following all of those threads and only bought the seat after I found out it could be installed more upright.

And my opinion, stated above, about how difficult it is to actually determine the 35° angle and how easily the angle can change (weight of child, compression of seat pad) still stands.

ETA: and Jen, I kept wondering who this CDNTech person was that had obviously been around for awhile, but I had never seen the username...then I finally read your sig! Glad to know I am not going crazy.

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Oh I totally get the "can you really tell if it's 35 degree angle" thing... I just also think that if you are guessing it to be 30 degrees, then it's probably too upright. Since the manufacturer has stressed no more than 35 degrees (for whatever reason ), I would err on the side of caution in this instance.

... and yeah, I changed my username. I left my former username in my siggy for the time being, but it will disappear soon. I didn't want my kid(s) name(s) in my siggy any more.

CDNTech said:

Oh I totally get the "can you really tell if it's 35 degree angle" thing... I just also think that if you are guessing it to be 30 degrees, then it's probably too upright. Since the manufacturer has stressed no more than 35 degrees (for whatever reason ), I would err on the side of caution in this instance.

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Ah, I get you now!

CDNTech said:

... and yeah, I changed my username. I left my former username in my siggy for the time being, but it will disappear soon. I didn't want my kid(s) name(s) in my siggy any more.

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Yup, good idea to err on the side of caution with respect to kid's names as well! Good move. :thumbsup:

Thanks again for the link to techs. I DID find several in SD County closer to where we live in North County - you have to search by specific small city as opposed to "San Diego". I'm waiting for a call back from a tech at a city PD. The closest city PD to us doesn't have any openings until the last week in October.

Our vehicle is a 1999 Dodge Caravan that has had the 2nd row of seats removed for wheelchair ramp. Our 6-month old twins sit in the 3rd row. There are floor anchors that can be used for RF tethers (although I know the TF doesn't have RF tether).

Re: TF Compatability for non-techs

CDNTech said:

I really hate to say this after your description of getting it in at that 30 degree angle... but the Trufit is not allowed to be any more upright than 35 degrees per the manufacturer.

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I didn't know that about the TF! I am just guessing about the angle...guess I better get more specific!

Ok, so this has been bothering me since yesterday. I can't tell you how many times I have gone out to my garage to look at his seat. I even took a level that has a 45* one on it and tried to guess at how far off it was from that...to no avail. I finally just took a picture and decided to ask for your opinions.

Kidless:


With the boy:


The passenger seat is all the way back. If I need to move it up and take another pic, I can. I tried to get as level as I could.

Assuming the red line on your seat is accurately applied and 100% aligned, and assuming that your vehicle is 100% level and also assuming that your picture is 100% level, I did some calculations using that line, and I'd say you're right around 34°. If any of those things are not 100% in alignment, then your actual value is going to be different. In my non-tech opinion, your seat is fine and I would quit worrying.

I am also basing my opinion on the install of my seat. Here is it installed my first try, and this ended up being approx. 30° using a digital angle finder and pulling cover off to measure angle against the back of seat where baby's back lies.



After my angle calculation, I got DH to help me out with the install and I ended up right at 34° I believe. Like I said above though, babe's weight pushes the seat back a bit, the foam inside the seat can compress, etc. so pressing on the back a little with the angle finder and my angle increases.



ETA: and she is sleeping in the 2nd pic. We had gone for a drive while she slept and even going over bumpy roads, and avoiding construction debris in our area (new area with lots of construction going on), her head stayed to the side and never flopped forward onto her chest.

Whew! That's a lot of assumptions, but thank you so much for looking at it for me.