TruFit Compatibility Issues

Another tech and I went out with a mission today. To install a TruFit in her vehicle so that we could better help a far away friend with her install (same vehicle and seat). We discovered some things that really concern us...

1. Difficulty tightening the harness properly...
I've talked about this before, but it really scares me. The Trufit's straps are quite folded over in the buckle tongues (about 1/4 of them on the seat we saw today). This causes the buckle tongues to not move up/down the strap which is a nice feature for parents (no more digging by the hips trying to find the buckle tongue). However it also causes an issue when tightening the harness properly.

The buckle tongues do *not* move without force applied to them. We installed the seat, put a 12 month old child in it and proceeded to tighten the harness. We pulled all the slack out of the harness using the adjuster strap between the legs. The shoulders passed the one finger test *and* the pinch test.

Then we checked by the hips. There was still a good inch of slack down by the hips and even hard tugging on the adjuster strap will *not* allow this slack to come loose.

You *must* pull on the harness directly above the buckle tongues to remove the slack from the hips and then pull on the adjuster strap to remove the remaining slack.

Due to all the extra infant padding that comes with the seat, that extra slack is often hidden and you don't even know it's there.

The Radian (older models that have the narrow buckle tongues) used to have this issue to a degree, but not to this severity. SKJP has also since switched to wider buckle tongues and this is no longer an issue on the new model Radians.

Other than that, I have never seen this issue with any other seat. The manuals all tell us to make sure the slack is pulled from the hips, but how many parents read their manuals and *no* other seat requires the amount of force the TruFit requires to remove this excess slack from the hip area.

2. Install issues caused by the rear facing lock-offs...
We attempted to install the seat at a 40 - 45 degree recline acceptable for a younger infant. It was not possible.

The lock-offs are positioned in such a manner as to cause the seatbelt to cover the lock-offs and they are not able to be closed. We have read about this before and decided to allow a slight slack in the seatbelt to get them closed properly and then test for movement.

The seat moved less than one inch from side to side, however the rebound was absolutely *not* acceptable. The seat literally flipped backwards over the entire vehicle seat and could easily move all over the place once flipped.

We went back to installing it at a 30 - 35 degree angle. The seatbelt lines up perfectly at this angle and the lock-offs closed. The seat was rock solid and barely rebounded back at all... much better. The only issue is that we are not allowed to install this seat at a 30 degree angle. It must be between 35 - 45 degrees. The other issue is that this angle is *not* suitable for a young infant.

3. Forward facing recline issue...
This seat is rather reclined when forward facing. In some vehicles it is very reclined (40 degree angle) and as a tech I'm just not comfortable with that.

As with all seats, this one does have it's issues and I think we need to be careful when offering blanket statements/recommendations for seats.

I realize that this is a new seat and parents/techs are excited about it, but we all need to be careful with these issues. I think as time goes on, we will see these issues crop up... or worse, we won't see them crop up... as parents won't even be aware that this is something they need to be careful with.

I've been thinking about the recline and I'm wondering about the Britax convertibles, as well as the Recaro convertibles. All of them install with a natural recline when ff'ing, and while I haven't seen a Recaro personally, there's not a huge difference between the MA and the True Fit when compared in my vehicle.

What I've read is that recline only is a concern if it's past 50*, so I'm curious what point you feel it becomes a concern, and if you have the same concerns with the Britax convertibles. I'm actually wondering if the recline increases SIP in some way since the Britax & Recaro convertibles also have SIP testing done on them?

Just kind of thinking out loud here... I know SPB has always voiced concern over ff'ing recline too. I think there has to be a point where it becomes a concern, but given the limited data available, it would seem it has to be after 50*.

I don't really have responses to everything, but I do have a True Fit and did want to comment on a few of your points.

CDNTech said:

1. Difficulty tightening the harness properly...
I've talked about this before, but it really scares me. The Trufit's straps are quite folded over in the buckle tongues (about 1/3 of them). This causes the buckle tongues to not move up/down the strap which is a nice feature for parents (no more digging by the hips trying to find the buckle tongue). However it also causes an issue when tightening the harness properly.

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I honestly don't find that I have this problem at all with my straps. Although people have said that the straps fold over in the buckle tongues, I really don't find that mine are that folded over. And I find that they move fairly easily along the straps. Now, to tighten I have a tendency to do up the chest clip, estimate the tightness, tighten using the adjuster and then do up the crotch buckle, so maybe that helps. I also minimally loosen and tighten the harness because that's what I do with all of my car seats. Is it possible that the difficulty with the buckle tongues is an issue with your seat, and not the True Fit in general?

CDNTech said:

2. Install issues caused by the rear facing lock-offs...
We attempted to install the seat at a 40 - 45 degree recline acceptable for a younger infant. It was not possible.

The lock-offs are positioned in such a manner as to cause the seatbelt to cover the lock-offs and they are not able to be closed. We have read about this before and decided to allow a slight slack in the seatbelt to get them closed properly and then test for movement.

Click to expand...

I was able to get the lockoffs to close and get a rock-solid installation right at a 40 degree recline (I had to use a tightly rolled towel at the bight) using the lower anchors in my Ford Focus. I agree, the belt does have a tendency to slip backwards and into the lockoffs on a manner that makes if very difficult to close. But by applying heavy downward pressure on the seat, I could slip the belt forward and get the lockoffs closed. It was not at all an easy install (two people would likely have made it easier), but it did work. I did not try it at a 45 degree angle, however.

In my opinion, I think that this seat is one that definitely has its niche and target group. I love my MA for ease of installation, but my 22 month old has outgrown it by weight RF and his shoulders are squished in it as well. I love the roominess and the 35 pound RF weight limit, as well as the easy-adjust for the strap heights. As a tech, I personally would have no qualms about recommending this seat to parents.

lemurmommies said:

Is it possible that the difficulty with the buckle tongues is an issue with your seat, and not the True Fit in general?

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No, unfortunately this is not a possibility. I've seen this issue on 5 separate seats with separate DOM's and in separate vehicles.

This is the strap folded over...

lemurmommies said:

I agree, the belt does have a tendency to slip backwards and into the lockoffs on a manner that makes if very difficult to close. But by applying heavy downward pressure on the seat, I could slip the belt forward and get the lockoffs closed. It was not at all an easy install (two people would likely have made it easier), but it did work.

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We had two experienced techs working on this particular seat today and it would not install properly at a 40 - 45 degree angle appropriate for a young infant.

This could definitely be a case of it's just incompatible with this particular vehicle, but it's definitely a reminder that we can't just be making blanket statements to go get this seat because it seems fantastic on paper.

lemurmommies said:

As a tech, I personally would have no qualms about recommending this seat to parents.

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As a tech, I also do not have qualms about recommending this seat provided that the parent is given all the information to make an informed decision. They do need to pay particular attention to the hip portion of the straps when tightening, especially if they have the infant padding in place, as it does tend to hide the level of tightness of the harness.

CDNTech said:

No, unfortunately this is not a possibility. I've seen this issue on 5 separate seats with separate DOM's and in separate vehicles.

This is the strap folded over...

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You see, my straps look just like that too (although I never would have estimated that to be 1/3 folded in the buckle tongues), but I don't find that I have issues tightening the harness because of it. Again though, it could just be that I am tightening them the way they need to be tightened instinctually, and that's why I haven't had a problem.

CDNTech said:

We had two experienced techs working on this particular seat today and it would not install properly at a 40 - 45 degree angle appropriate for a young infant.

This could definitely be a case of it's just incompatible with this particular vehicle, but it's definitely a reminder that we can't just be making blanket statements to go get this seat because it seems fantastic on paper.

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Oh, I absolutely understand that you are two techs that were installing it. And I also understand that you weren't able to get it to work. But like you said, it could be a vehicle compatibility issue.

And as for blanket statements, can't that be said for any car seat out there? The EFTA doesn't work well in some cars because of the knobs. The RA isn't great for tall children. Radian is long and doesn't work well RF in all cars, and seatbelt installations can be really tough too. Like any car seat, everyone should be reminded that what works best in any case is a car seat that fits the child and the car the best.

snowbird25ca said:

What I've read is that recline only is a concern if it's past 50*, so I'm curious what point you feel it becomes a concern, and if you have the same concerns with the Britax convertibles.

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I'm not positive at what point I have an issue with the recline on forward facing seats. I know the more upright the seat, the safer it is (or so I've been told in class) when forward facing.

I know that if the seat is reclined at more than a 30 degree angle (and the child is within limits to be rear facing) that I believe they should be rear facing... so maybe that's my own personal limit I feel comfortable with?

I know I'm definitely not okay (as a parent) with having the Marathon in recline mode FFing (even though it's allowed)... it's too reclined for me.

I know that the Marathon is not nearly as reclined as the TruFit in the exact same position in my van and I tried hard to get the Trufit as upright as I could... the Marathon I just threw in and installed, I could have easily worked to make it more upright.

I also know that when we put it in the Explorer FFing today that it was not nearly as reclined as it is in my van. It actually sat fairly upright (at an angle I was fine with), but the child's legs were still at an upwards angle that looked uncomfortable and would cause the legs to fall asleep on long drives.

I realize we have limited data, but it's just a feeling that I have and have been taught... more upright forward facing is more safe. Since I ERF and EH, I don't see why I would go to the minimums here either.

lemurmommies said:

And as for blanket statements, can't that be said for any car seat out there? The EFTA doesn't work well in some cars because of the knobs. The RA isn't great for tall children. Radian is long and doesn't work well RF in all cars, and seatbelt installations can be really tough too. Like any car seat, everyone should be reminded that what works best in any case is a car seat that fits the child and the car the best.

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Absolutely and this is one of my biggest reminders (bolded above)... since it's a new seat to the Canadian market and in such a good price point, I see it being recommended more and more without telling parents the possible issues to watch for when installing/using the seat. That does a disservice to those parents who are coming here for all the facts.

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

CDNTech said:

No, unfortunately this is not a possibility. I've seen this issue on 5 separate seats with separate DOM's and in separate vehicles.

This is the strap folded over...

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I am not sure if lemurmommies was thinking the same thing I was, but I was also thinking, "my straps are not THAT folded over" and I was referring to your post that said 1/3 of the strap was folded over. The pic you show is not 1//3 of the strap. I realize that it's a technicality and may not have made a difference to the issue you were having, it just also made me think there was something different about your seat as mine never fold over 1/3.

Interestingly, it seems only my right one does it, and not all the time either, as I usually slide the tongues so it doesn't happen. I put her in for a pic yesterday and wasn't concerned about it and this is what mine looked like (similar to yours)


I haven't noticed whether it is hard to get the slack out of the hip area, by only pulling on the harness strap, because I ALWAYS tighten the hip area by pulling around the buckle on any seat she is in. Even in her SS I did this as I found she could be loose in the hip area otherwise. I also did it when I used a Marathon for a couple of months because I also found the hip area could be loose (and since I found the Marathon always looks loose, it was especially important to ensure it was tight there). So, after using those 2 seats and seeing loose hips, I have just adopted the "tighten at hips" rule! I guess I am just saying that I don't see this issue being exclusive to the True Fit.

I've honestly not had any problems that you described with this seat and installed in multiple vehicles.

My straps fold over the buckle tongues but in no way is it 1/3 of the strap. This has never prevented me from tightening the straps at all. My buckle tongues moved freely and I have the seat next to me and they still are.....even with the strap folded over.

I've pretty much used this seat only RFing. I actually found it harder to get it to a more upright angle. It installed perfectly at 45 degrees. In fact, it seemed to ONLY want to install at 45 degrees. For the longest time I couldn't get it upright. I am able to now though. I had no issues with the lock off not closing at any angle. I found them extremely easy to use. They closed on both the seatbelts and LATCH belt in my car and my DH's car.

The natural recline-this seat DOES have a natural recline. My seats also had to be reclined 2 notches with LATCH increasing it. However, I don't think I would say it was 40 degrees. It was reclined MORE than my MA, but not an unsafe angle. In fact, I loved it reclined the way it was and had no second thoughts on putting my child in it.

The SS2 is wayyyyy more reclined that this ever was and it passed testing as well. Britax has tested theirs reclined up to 33 lbs as well and it passed. I honestly don't see a slight recline as an issue, as long as its not obnoxiously reclined.

That being said, I don't doubt you had issues. But it sounds more like a car incompatibility issues more than a seat issue. I really have had none of the issues and haven't heard much talk on here about these same issues.

I wouldn't hesitate to keep suggesting this seat to parents....in the same way I suggest all seats-that the safest seat is the one that fits your child, car, budget, and you will use correctly. Obviously in some cases, as is with ALL seats, this seat will not be the safest seat for EVERYONE.

I rarely suggest seats without telling them to try it first. ALL seats have issues with certain children and certain cars and we still recommend them. It's just important to let them know all seats are not compatible with all cars or all children :twocents:

I agree that this seat, like all others, has it's negative points, and I'm glad someone is pointing that out--it seems this seat is being praised more than what it's worth, but I guess just because it's new and at that price level.

I also had to put a lot of effort into tightening the harness for a 5.5 month old. There is a lot of space back there behind the padding, but the harness was caught in all that padding after bringing it down with the no-rethread harness adjuster and it was not obvious that the harness was caught up there, so it appeared snug until you pull on it. Of course you are supposed to pinch test, but I doubt that all parents do that.

But here's what really, REALLY bugs me about this seat: it's basically telling parents to turn FFing at 23 lbs. I know it doesn't SAY that and actually says RF as long as possible, but it does not clearly say "once they reach 22 lbs, put the headrest on and keep it RFing and put it more upright to make it fit in the car". The fact that it is designed to fit RFing by taking off the headrest makes parents think oh, good, this will fit I just have to take off that head rest. I don't think the average parent is going to put it back on to continue RFing, rather they will turn them FFing.:twocents:

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

I might have missed it, but did you say what vehicle this was in?

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

TechnoGranola said:

I might have missed it, but did you say what vehicle this was in?

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Today's vehicle was an '03 Ford Explorer.

I was concerned about the potential loosening of the seat through purposeful rebounding and then re-checking for tightness. (Even though we as techs know to not check for tightness that way and I'd hedge bets it wouldn't be much different than any other non-tethered seat in a collision since when the seat comes down from rebound I wouldn't expect the seat to still be rock solid in all cases anyways, but still, it concerned me...)

So anyways, I went out and reinstalled my seat rf'ing with the seatbelt. I'm guessing to around a 40 to 43* angle - I only had 1 pool noodle out there. I did have difficulty with getting the belt positioned in the lock-offs. I noticed buckle stalk orientation was a definite factor because the metal stalks wanted to point forward and wouldn't pull up the same way a fabric one would...

Anyways, long story short, I tried multiple times with rebound and checking for movement and it didn't loosen nor did it rebound anymore than other seats I've purposefully rebounded. :shrug-shoulders:

I'm thinking it was probably a vehicle incompatibility since I haven't seen this the other times I've installed it rf'ing - though I haven't tested for movement this way either.

eta: based on measurements and a comparison I did earlier, the TF strap width and the buckle tongues are pretty much identical to the original radians. I'm pretty certain the tongues are identical, though the TF harness strap may be 1/16th of an inch wider. :thumbsup:

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

TechnoGranola said:

I am not sure if lemurmommies was thinking the same thing I was, but I was also thinking, "my straps are not THAT folded over" and I was referring to your post that said 1/3 of the strap was folded over. The pic you show is not 1//3 of the strap. I realize that it's a technicality and may not have made a difference to the issue you were having, it just also made me think there was something different about your seat as mine never fold over 1/3.

Interestingly, it seems only my right one does it, and not all the time either, as I usually slide the tongs so it doesn't happen. I put her in for a pic yesterday and wasn't concerned about it and this is what mine looked like (similar to yours)

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Yeah, that's indeed what I was thinking. Looking at your picture TechnoGranola, my harness looks more like yours (although my son is using the second crotch buckle position.) I definitely wouldn't have categorized it as 1/3 folded over. I really don't find that the folding over has at all affected our use of the seat.

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

CDNTech said:

Today's vehicle was an '03 Ford Explorer.

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Well, that explains the too upright RFing problem. I had an 02 Explorer that was totaled and it had the weirdest shaped back seat. The bottom of the seat was tilted up towards where your kness would rest. I had to use two tightly rolled up towels to get a recline comfortable for a 7 month old PLUS using the RFing tether.

ETA: The folding over of the TF harness actually reminded me of the folding over the radian harness does. They look just like what was on my radian. Maybe they should come out with a longer crotch strap and wider buckle tong(ue)s like SKJP.

Re: True Fit Compatibility Issues

arly1983 said:

Well, that explains the too upright RFing problem. I had an 02 Explorer that was totaled and it had the weirdest shaped back seat. The bottom of the seat was tilted up towards where your kness would rest. I had to use two tightly rolled up towels to get a recline comfortable for a 7 month old PLUS using the RFing tether.

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It could... except we had a Radian (I know, I know... the foot makes it 45 degrees ) and a Marathon right beside the Trufit and both of those seats could be installed at 45 degrees with no issues... although we had them closer to 35 - 40 degrees today.

I am honestly not trying to say that the Trufit is a horrible seat. It just has a niche in the market and it is not the be-all, end-all that people want it to be. It has it's issues that need to be watched for (just like any other seat) and I'm just trying to get parents aware of those issues so that they can watch out for them if this is the seat that best meets their needs.

I honestly think that some people are too emotionally invested in this seat... it's just a seat.

Before anyone else harps on the 1/3 strap folding over... that was a typo and should read 1/4, which is very clear from the pictures (and not that far off from 1/3 either - both in actual measurements and on the keyboard ).

snowbird25ca said:

Anyways, long story short, I tried multiple times with rebound and checking for movement and it didn't loosen nor did it rebound anymore than other seats I've purposefully rebounded. :shrug-shoulders:

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My guess is that you can do this because you can actually install the seat (properly) at that angle to begin with. The rebound issue we had went above and beyond a normal rebound... which is probably what you are seeing in your vehicle. It's difficult to describe without showing, but it was not in any way acceptable and I know you would have had a heart attack if you had seen it irl.

snowbird25ca said:

eta: based on measurements and a comparison I did earlier, the TF strap width and the buckle tongues are pretty much identical to the original radians. I'm pretty certain the tongues are identical, though the TF harness strap may be 1/16th of an inch wider. :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

The tech I was with actually has a Radian with the original tongues on her seat (they were side by side in our install today). The strap folding over is not as bad on the Radian as it is on the Trufit. Either way, SKJP seems to have addressed this possible issue with changing the buckle tongues to the wider design on all new seats... which tells me that I'm not the only one that has had this issue or complaint.

CDNTech said:

3. Forward facing recline issue...
This seat is rather reclined when forward facing. In some vehicles it is very reclined (40 degree angle) and as a tech I'm just not comfortable with that.

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I had not heard about this - our ff true fit is quite reclined - How reclined can/should it be? What makes it unsafe?
Thanks!

My friend purchased a True Fit a couple of days ago and complained about the twisting of the straps and not being able to tighten the harness properly. She thought maybe she was doing something wrong when she tightened the harness, so I'll be sure to tell her about this so she can see if it helps before she returnes it.

emars002 said:

I had not heard about this - our ff true fit is quite reclined - How reclined can/should it be? What makes it unsafe?
Thanks!

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It's not that it's unsafe... I just prefer it to be more upright as that is safe(r).

In a typical lap/shoulder seatbelt...
When a forward facing seat is reclined the child runs the risk of submarining underneath the lap portion of the seatbelt. This in turn can cause internal injuries (to the stomach area) and even death.

A 5pt harness works similarly but *definitely* not to the same extent. I would rather the child/seat be more upright so that the force of the collision is spread over all 5 points more equally rather than the lower three points (crotch buckle, and two hip points).

These seats are tested in their reclined state (according to their manuals), but I do wonder just what the difference is between a test sled bench (fairly upright) and a vehicle with sloped backseats or a reclined vehicle seat. There is no data to support or refute this, so until there is I will err on the side of caution and if that seat is forward facing then I want it sitting fairly upright. Just my personal preference.