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  1. #1
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    Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Hi,

    My 11 month old is 20lbs+ and getting close to the weight limit (22lbs) of the Safety 1st infant car seat. Should I use this right up to 22lbs or is this cutting too close? I don't want the car seat to flip out of it's base.

    I was thinking of transitioning to the Evenflo Generations as it's good from 20-47lbs 5 point harnessed with high harness slots and 40-100lbs unharnessed as a booster. The only thing I'm not sure of is the racheting mechanism to tighen and loosen the harness. It's made of plastic and will it break over time as it's exposed to the extreme conditions inside the car?

    Is this a good seat?

    Thanks.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    How much shell does your son have above his head in the infant seat?

  4. #3
    Moderator MomToEliEm's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    The evenflo generations seat is a forward facing only seat and cannot be used for any child under 1 year of age. It is best to use a rearfacing convertible seat well past the 1 year mark, but after the minimum 1 year and 20 pound requirement, it is a parental decision to make as to whether you rearface to the recommended levels (2 years and 30 pounds) or just use the minimum requirements (1 year and 20 pounds).

    Here is a good video showing reasons why rearfacing is preferred:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psmUWg7QrC8

    Here is a good website talking about why rearfacing is safest:
    http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx

    A rearfacing seat is outgrown when a child is over the harness weight limit for rearfacing or has less then 1" of hard plastic over their head. Please verify how your child fits in the infant seat. He may be too large already for it. If he still fits height wise, it is very safe to continue using it up to the harness weight limit.

    Please let us know if you need any recommendations on convertible seats.
    Katy

  5. #4
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    There is about 2 cms left between the top of the head and the top of the Safety 1st infant car seat. There are 4 harness slots and the second from the top is being used.

    The manual says a height of 19-29 inches (48-74cm) in length and 2.3-10kg (5-22lb).

    I cannot find anywhere in the manual about the 1 inch rule. Is it outgrown when the ears are level with the top of the seat?

    Should the Safety 1st infant car seat still be used?

  6. #5
    Senior Community Member unityco's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    There is about 2 cms left between the top of the head and the top of the Safety 1st infant car seat.
    The seat is outgrown then. You need at least 2.5cm space above his head. You need to get him a rear-facing convertible seat ASAP.

    The manual says a height of 19-29 inches (48-74cm) in length and 2.3-10kg (5-22lb).
    Unfortunately, height measurements are not an accurate way to determine if a child has outgrown a seat. One 29" child can be all legs, and the next all torso. The proportion of legs to torso will dramatically affect how a child fits in the seat. The 1" rule is a much more accurate measure of whether the child fits.

    Is it outgrown when the ears are level with the top of the seat?
    This rule (in addition to weight and shoulder to top slot height) applies to forward facing seats only.

    Should the Safety 1st infant car seat still be used?
    No. You really need to get a convertible seat (one that works both rear-facing and forward-facing) soon. You have years yet to worry about getting a booster, and your son is much, much safer rear-facing.

    Hope that helps!

  7. #6
    Moderator MomToEliEm's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I cannot find anywhere in the manual about the 1 inch rule. Is it outgrown when the ears are level with the top of the seat?
    This info was from the Safety 1st website. I was looking to see if there was a Canadian version of the site, but I couldn't find it.

    http://www.safety1st.com/faq/detail.asp?ID=2
    How long should my child remain rear facing?
    Infants should remain rear facing until they are both 1 year old and weigh 22 pounds. However, it is important to remember that all children grow at different rates. Your child may outgrow his infant car seat before he is 1 year old. You must stop using the seat when the top of your child's head comes within one inch of the top of the car seat. If this happens, you can move your child to a convertible seat that rear faces to 35 pounds or he may need to ride forward facing if he is over 1 year old.
    The info is probably somewhere in your manual, but it may be listed in an odd location. The 1" rule (or 2.5cm rule for Canada) is pretty universal on when rearfacing seats are outgrown.

    From your description, your child has outgrown the seat and needs to use a rearfacing convertible seat.
    Katy

  8. #7
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Quote Originally Posted by MomToEliEm View Post
    From your description, your child has outgrown the seat and needs to use a rearfacing convertible seat.


    Definitely sounds outgrown and waaaaaay too young for a Generations. You need a RFg convertible seat.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  9. #8
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    I absolutely agree with everyone that your baby needs to stay rear facing for about another year.

    However, if you are set on going forward facing, I would not recommend that Generations seat (i have 3 of them). They are really meant for older children. The seat sits completely upright, no recline, so baby's big head will be flopping around. It doesn't have wings, like a convertible seat, that baby can prop head against to sleep. It sits very low in the car because it is a booster seat, so a baby wouldn't be able to see out the window.

    I moved my youngest to a Generations at 2.75 years old and found for her it was a difficult adjustment because it sat so upright and she had nowhere to put her head to sleep.

    You really want a convertible seat so that you can give baby some recline to support that big head.

    (Sorry, I keep saying big head, but that is the issue, babies have big heads relative to the rest of their body)

    But again, I don't recommend going forward facing yet.
    Nenni

  10. #9
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    I looked everywhere in the manual about being outgrown and cannot find it. Why did they even bother to put another higher harness slot in the Safety 1st seat if it can't be used?

    Is it not safe or not recommended to use the Generations? Why do they make 20-100lb car seats if they shouldn't be used FF over 1 year and 20lbs?

    Are these US regulations? What about Canadian regulations? Any Canadian techs here to comment?

  11. #10
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    In a nutshell, there are 2 reasons why they make 20lb min ff'ing weight seats. Well, maybe 3.

    1. Higher weight rf'ing seats haven't always been available. At one time 20 or 22lbs was the max rf'ing limit available. As a result, laws were made to reflect 20lbs.

    2. The information that rf'ing is safest is still new to many parents, so there are still people looking for a seat with lower weight limit. This has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with sales. Even Britax has a 20lb min ff'ing weight limit on the MA and RA, so it's not something that Evenflo is alone in doing.

    3. There are older kids who don't hit 20lbs until they're 3yrs old. A 20lb 3yr old is actually safer ff'ing than 28lb 13month old because their head to body ratio is more proportionate, and their spinal column has ossified more.

    The spinal column doesn't finish fusing until between the ages of 3 and 6, so a 1yr olds spinal column - ie the bones and the space between them, can stretch further than the spinal cord can. This means that in a collision with a lot of force, children's spinal cords can be completely severed resulting in instant death. That outcome doesn't happen all that often, but if you could completely eliminate the risk by keeping a child rf'ing beyond the minimum, then it only makes sense to do it.

    As for the 1" rule, I'd have to read the entire manual to see if it's in there. I know that some manufacturers are conservative when setting height limits thinking that most kids won't have their head within 1" of the top of the shell by the time they hit 29". Every child is proportioned differently though, and it doesn't matter what country you live in - a baby's head striking the interior of the vehicle is never a good thing... crash dynamics are the same everywhere.

    Transport Canada has a handout called 1-2-3-4 Car Time. The Stage 1 - Rear facing section specifically states:
    http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/child...tage1/menu.htm
    Don’t be in a hurry to start using a forward-facing child seat. The longer you use a rear-facing infant-only seat, infant /child seat, or infant/child/booster seat that fits correctly, even past your baby’s first birthday, the safer your baby will be in a crash. Be sure to follow the manufacturer’s instructions for use and check the label for the weight and height that are allowed.
    It also says under "securing your baby in a rear-facing seat":
    Check where the top of your baby’s head lies on the back of the seat.

    * If the top of your baby’s head is less than 2.5 cm (1 inch) from the top of the seat, a bigger seat is needed.
    The simple explanation for the headroom being needed, is that in most collisions, the carseat is going to rotate downwards towards the front/floor of the vehicle. During this initial stage, the baby is going to slide up towards the top of the shell. The harness straps have some natural stretch to them under high forces, that will allow even a tightly harnessed baby to slide up a little. Without that 1" space, there is no guarantee that baby's head won't slide above the shell and impact another surface in the vehicle.

    As for your question about why the top set of slots are there, babies are proportioned differently - some have a longer neck or a taller head than others. It's quite common for babies to outgrow the SS1 right about the same time as reaching the top slots. Other babies use the top slots for months before outgrowing the seat. It's all about proportions.

    Also check that when looking at the slots, you are checking the height against the shell, and not against the cover. If your little one's head is that close to the top of the shell and the shoulders are still below the top slot, than I would say it is even more important to keep him rf'ing past the minimums. The top harness slots are low enough that I'd hazard a guess that with shoulders below them and a head near the top of the shell then your little one still has quite a large head in proportion to the rest of his body.

    There's an interesting diagram on this site here that might help you understand proportions as kids get older. There's also excellent rear facing information there. (Yes, the site is in New Zealand, but crash dynamics are the same world over. Statistically in Canada, frontal and side impact collisions are the most common.)
    http://www.childrestraintsafety.com/rear-facing.html

    You'll also find a picture of the different stages and ages of spinal fusion.

    This particular website is run by a member here who flew to the US to take the CPST course, so it is very reliable information.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  12. #11
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Thanks for taking the time to respond and providing the info.

    What seat is recommended? Do I need a convertible or can a comprehensive do? I tried measuring my squirming 11 month old child - height around 27-28 inches, torso about 11 inches, head size about 47cm and weight about 20lbs+.

    Is a Scenera, Titan Elite, AOE or Ensipra recommended? What are the harness heights for each? I want something that won't be outgrown anytime soon and nothing too big and bulky that won't fit in my car.

  13. #12
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    What kind of car do you drive?

    With the price range that you're looking at, I'd cross off the titan elite and scenera, but add the triumph and the true fit (depends on which AOE model you were looking at, but they usually run in the 199 range which is what the True Fit is.)

    For the price of the Scenera in Canada, it isn't really worth it long term in my opinion. The Titan also tends to be outgrown by height well before 40lbs. The AOE in store in Canada still have the top unusable headrest position, so top harness height is 15.5". They're also pretty big space hogs front to back, so it wouldn't be my top choice. Of the 4 you mentioned, I'd pick the Enspira. It has actual harness slots so there won't be any confusion about headrest position, and it's baseless, so has a lower profile once ff'ing. I wouldn't use it as a booster seat though - really none of the comprehensive seats (commonly referred to on the forums here as 3in1's) make good boosters. So I'd look at the seats you're considering strictly from a view point of them being only a rf'ing/ff'ing seat.

    The reason I'm adding the Triumph and True Fit in to your list, is because both have tall top harness height. The Triumph is also compact front to back when rf'ing, and can be used ff'ing to 47lbs - so it will get most kids to an age where they can safely go in to a dedicated booster. Drawbacks are that seats with deep side contouring like the Acura MDX really interfere with the knobs - and that's how the harness is tightened and loosened. So if you have a vehicle with really deep contouring, it's likely not a good option.

    The True Fit has a 65lb weight limit, and again will get most kids to a safe booster age & size. It's 199 at both Zeller's and Toys R Us (TRU.) It also has a 7yr expiry, so you'll get some extra use out of the seat. With your ds being 11mos old, the seat can be installed more upright, so it should fit fine in the back of the vehicle - I know people have had it in smaller sedans like the ford focus and I think somebody here has had it in another smaller vehicle.

    My recommendation would be to make a trip in to TRU if you have one nearby, and try some of the different seats. They won't have the Scenera, or enspira, but they'll have the other ones you're considering. Zeller's will have the Scenera and enspira, as well as the True Fit and AOE, so that would be another option. Once you can place your ds in the seat and see how he fits and get a feel for how the harness adjusts etc. you'll have a better idea of what will work best for you from the aspect of use and fitting him. And if you can tell us what kind of car you drive, there's a good chance somebody will be able to provide general info as to if certain seats will be compatible.

    One other thing - signing in before posting will allow your post to show up immediately so you won't have to wait for a moderator to approve it.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  14. #13
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    [QUOTE=snowbird25ca;562009]What kind of car do you drive?

    2001 Honda Civic 4dr sedan - I believe the 2001-2005 sedans are the same.

    What seats will fit? Hondas have buckles forward of the seat bight. Also there is not much room left for front passenger and driver for a large RF seat.

    I am concerned in getting a convertible that will be outgrown too quickly in height which was why I was looking at the conbination seats such as the Genereations with high harness slots and headrest that can be adjusted.

    How high are the harness slots and shell of the seats mentioned above? Do anyone have a current list of Canadian seats heights and harness slots, dimensions?

  15. #14
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    There is a sticky at the top of this forum, Canadian High weight seats
    http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=36056

    I don't think you have to worry too much about a convertible with high top slots being outgrown quickly. The Generations is seriously not appropriate for a baby. There is no recline and its meant for older children. And, like we've all said, its much safer for your child to be RFg for as long as possible.

    My DD#1 still (just) fits into her former Marathons. She's 4.5. When DD#2 came along, we got DD#1 two Radians and passed the Marathons down to DD#2. DD#1 has loads of room in her RNs (FFg, but the seat is a RFg/FFg convertible). She will definitely make it to age 5 in that seat. Maybe longer. And, my DD#1 has a crazy-long torso. Most kids would make it to age 5 in the MA and age 6 or even 7 in the RN.

    You could also look at the TrueFit or Triumph Advance. They both have nice high top slots and can be used RFg and FFg for a LONG time. The TrueFit currently has the highest RFg weight (35lbs) of any seat in Canada (most are 30lbs).

    I know for a fact that the Marathon fits RFg center in a 2001 Acura EL (which is the same body as the 2001 4-door Civic). Neither the EL nor the Civic had center LATCH in those years and you can NOT borrow LATCH anchors from the outside positions, so if you want the seat in the center, you need to do a lap/shoulder belt install. Super easy with the Marathon.
    Also, whatever seat you purchase, your LATCH anchors in the Civic are only good to 40lbs, notwithstanding that some seats allow you to use a LATCH install to a higher weight (after LATCH, you can install with belts to the max. weight of the seat). Most kids will outgrow seats by height before weight.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  16. #15
    Senior Community Member unityco's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Just wanted to chime in with some personal experience...

    We drive a Ford Focus, which also has a small backseat. We were able to install a Britax Marathon in the centre of the back seat without having to move either front seat forward at all. Often, with a centre install, you'll have more front-to-back room for your rear-facing seat because the top of the carseat can peek through the two front seats. The other trick to preserving front leg room is to install your convertible seat with less than a 45° recline. Older babies no longer need that deep an angle and you can install their seat as upright as 30° (except for the True Fit, which can only go as upright as 35°.)

    The Marathon, Evenflo Triumph Advance, First Years True Fit or Radian (in no particular order) would all make excellent choices for long-lasting convertible seats. I can't comment on which ones would fit best in your car, though.

    HTH!

  17. #16
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    My parents have a 2001 Civic and an AOE fits well RF behind the passenger. I haven't tried any other seats RF in this car. I have the 2007 Civic, so slightly different, but I had successfully installed the True Fit with the headrest on RF behind the passenger. I'm not sure how well this would fit for a tall passenger in front, but it did go in with some room to spare (i.e. front seat not all the way forward.) If it can be put in the center seat of the 01 Civic, you would likely be able to have the headrest peeking between the front seats some, but I haven't tried it. I did have it in the center of a Ford Focus sedan. There are some pictures of my installs in this thread.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

  18. #17
    Carseat Crazy cdncasper's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Where in canada are you? Perhaps one of our canadian techs can get together with you to help you out.

    April
    mommy to K, 5 years, 41.5 lbs, 44 inches, harnessed in a Britax Frontier CT


  19. #18
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    I cannot use the centre install position as a my other child is seated outboard and there is not enough room side by side.

    I've been through trying to install a Radian securely RF and FF before which is impossible to due to seat bight and the top heavy nature of the seat.

    The Civic also has door panels that interfere with wider seats. Are the latch anchors only rated to 40lbs? I don't recall seeing this in the car manual. I thought it was the latch belts that had the 40lbs restriction.

  20. #19
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    Honda's LATCH limit is definitely 100% 40lbs. Its in the LATCH manual, and I've personally called Honda Canada to confirm that you can only use LATCH in Honda vehicles to 40lbs. Britax and Sunshine Kids permit LATCH use to 48lbs, but ONLY if the vehicle manufacturer is OK with that too, and Honda isn't. You always use the lower of either the child restraint limit or the vehicle limit.

    I am certain that a Marathon will fit outboard in your vehicle. I've installed in in the 2001 Acura EL (same body and seats as your vehicle), and it definitely fit (outboard RFg and outboard FFg).

    I'm surprised the Radian didn't work. Its not top heavy, not sure what you mean by that.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  21. #20
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Combination seat - Evenflo Generations

    I've PM'ed one of the other mods who lives close to the IP you're posting from. (She's also a tech.) If you can post a more specific location that would help though.. sometimes IP addresses aren't completely direct & accurate so far as location goes.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


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