Belt forward of seat bight

Splash

New member
I would assume that the center lap belt in my vehicle qualifies as 'forward of the seat bight.' It may be why I have never been able to get a good tight install with his BV in the center.
But we just got a graco safeseat 1 last night from a friend who doesn't like it because of it's size. (Yes, I trust her absolutely. I know there is nothing wrong with the seat). I installed it center last night in my car and it is rock solid. Way better than either of his britaxes have ever been.

But it says in the manual not to use it if the seatbelts are forward of the bight. Why is this? I can understand if it interferes with getting a tight install but it doesn't. This seat is rock solid.

I posted some pictures of the belt location. Maybe someone can help me determine?
bightinstall2.jpg

bightinstall1.jpg

bighthand.jpg
 
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scatterbunny

New member
Yes, those are forward-of-the-bight belts. :( I've got one, too. Mine is further away from the seat bight, though. The only seats I've gotten tight there are ones that use the reverse belt path (Husky and Fisher Price Futura--but the Husky doesn't allow the reverse belt path with lapbelts anymore :( ).

I'm really at a loss as to what to do when dd outgrows the Futura. I want to keep her in that lapbelt-only spot as long as possible, it's the center seat, it has a headrest but only a freaking ELR lapbelt.

I can't think of any good reason why not to install it there if it's a solid install. My biggest problem with a forward-of-the-bight belt is that it will SEEM tight at first, side-to-side, and tugging on the top of the seat shell...but when I grab the base at the front and pull, it slides forward, into a deep recline, allowing much more movement.

Of course, I've only dealt with this belt issue since dd has been forward-facing.
 
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Victorious4

Senior Community Member
Hm ... so from side-to-side it's rock solid, but did you also try pulling it out away from the vehicle seat back like Jenny said :confused:

I might call Graco to get their take on it & make an appointment with a CPSTech just in case....

GOOD LUCK :)
 

Splash

New member
I pulled it from both sides, from the front, and from the top. THis thing is NOT moving.
Before this we had a BT Latch Loc with the solid metal latch bars. I daresay that this is as tight as that was front to back and side to side, and tighter when pulling from the top.
I LOVE this seat! It's the easiest install I have ever had with the belt (way easier than any Britax) and it is completely solid.
We won't be using it as a carrier that much (he's too heavy) but it is a great seat. And hopefully he can be in it for several more months. It'll buy him time in the center at least, because next time I put his BV in, I am going to have to put it outboard because it just won't install right in the center :(

E
 

Splash

New member
Another question

It says nothing about this in the manual.
Is it okay to have the buckle in the belt path if it does not in any way interfere with locking in the seat?
The seat clicks in just fine and releases easily, but the buckle is in the belt path. It's not at an angle that prevents the latchplate from locking (even if it was, the locking clip has it locked tight) but I still don't know if it's okay.
If I twist the stalk, then the seat won't be tight anymore and that pretty much makes the whole thing pointless.
malebuckle.jpg


The metal clip on top of the buckle is to connect the shoulder portion that comes down from the ceiling.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
Oh, is this a Buick? Looks like my friend's shoulder belt attachment thingy -- I wonder if you might share with me what the vehicle manual says about that :confused: I've been curious & rarely get to see my friend anymore (forgot to ask her the one time I saw her months ago!) :eek:

Anyway, if you've read the vehicle manual & it says you can install a carseat there & it's staying rock solid then I'd just call Graco anyway -- if for no other reason than to ask if they have specific knowledge about your vehicle type, ask if installing this way voids any kind of liability & also if it is OK they might like to be aware of the situation....

I was taught that so long as the locking lap only latch plate is keeping the belt parallel (so it stays locked) & the carrier does install into the base securely still, then it's fine that way :)
 

Splash

New member
It's a Pontiac Aztek. The same as a Buick Rendezvous. What is your specific question and I will check the manual for you?
I called Graco and the girl just said to install it outboard. There was nothing in her system saying anything about the latch plate in the belt path. But she said to check my manual or to call NHTSA and ask them what they said. If not, then install it outboard with LATCH just as a CYA for them I think.
The belt is locked, AND the lock off is used.
Britax says you can't have a buckle or latch plate in the belt path, but doesn't say why. Someone on another car seat board told me that the reason for this is that if the crash pressure is exerted directly onto the buckle (versus the belt and therefore more spread out) that the buckle will fail. That DOES make sense if that is the case. But my vehicle manual says nothing, Graco says nothing... Britax says not to do it but doesn't say why.
I want this to work, but I don't want to do something that will fail in the event of a crash.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
Hm, I hear ya ... if they said to install it outboard, though & you do also get a good tight install there, I'd move it :eek: RF 5-point harness seat is still going to be very safe outboard -- Darren also had a point that it would be farther away from impact if a car did carsh into the opposite side :rolleyes: :cool:

& thanks about the manual -- I'm just wondering what it says about using the center shoulder belt ... I'm just generally curious about that type of attachment they use! (It's very different than the other types I'm used to seeing in Ford, Acura, Toyota)
 

Splash

New member
The manual says not to use the shoulder portion for a car seat, but it is okay for a booster seat. But having used it for a booster before, it's a total PITA.
It's also pretty uncomfortable. But they do have a built in positioner, kind of like the clip on a backless booster. So it does keep it off your neck, sometimes. I don't sit in the center often and have, in the past, only used it for car seats. Never had a problem either until that dang BV came around! I can install it FF just fine, but RF is impossible. With my girls, I never put a seat in the center because there was always two kids. Now there is just Charlie, and I don't want him outboard. And even though if I had two kids, logic would say I would have to put at least one outboard, but I won't. When the girls were with us, we had a 2003 Odyssey (which I hated. SO glad to be rid of that van) and I put them both in the center! One in the middle row, one in the back. That was the vehicle they were in most often. When (if) we have another child, we'll probably do the same.
But that's beside the point. I have a hard time with the 'farther away from the other side' theory because in order to get to a kid in the middle, there would have to be MAJOR intrusion. Not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely. But to get to a kid outboard, almost any side impact crash is going to hit them.
I will continue my quest. Somewhere I will get an answer to this riddle. Until then, he rides in the other vehicle.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
I know ... it was really hard for me to give up my center install in the Blazer even when the manual said NEVER INSTALL a carseat there :( That vehicle sucked! :mad: LOL :p

Anyway, best of luck & thanks again!
 

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