Freakonomics...GRRRRRRRR

super_grape

Active member
DH and I were watching 20/20 and John Stossel (sp?)
had this Freakonomics guy on who said (taking a deep,
angry breath here) that after the age of 2 a car seat
isn't any safer than a seat belt!!!!
His reasoning was that all seats are practically impossible
to install and the manuals are (gasp) sometimes 39 pages long.
How can anyone be expected to read such a long manual (thppppppt!).
However...he barely touched on misuse and just kept repeating
this ridiculousness over and over.
I was a bit releaved to her John Stossel say at the end of the segment
that properly used seats do save lives and to have a tech check/install your
seat...but REALLY! I am so sick of hearing things like this, MOST ESPECIALLY
on national television. Why can't they focus on misuse and how to correct
it instead of saying "oh well, you'll do it wrong so don't even bother"!:mad:
I wish someone would do a segment on how it is a parents responsibility
to do their very best to keep their kid(s) safe...even if that involves
reading a 39 page car seat manual...SHEESH!
What makes me the most angry is that many parents will say now
"well, it's just as safe" and forget about properly restraining their kids
because that's what they said on 20/20.

Shame on you, 20/20!!!!
 
ADS

LuvBug

New member
and did you notice how when they showed the guy installing the seats he wasnt looking at the manuals? It wasnt until after he did it that he looked at it and realized he did it wrong. DUH! You are suppose to read the manual first.

I honestly think more manuals on how to put together a swing set get read than manuals for carseats:rolleyes:
 

Dreaming_of_Speed

Senior Community Member
I just posted the same thing! :) I'm going to copy and paste my post over here so its easier to discuss it, so this is going to sound odd but i'm tired and dont want to edit to fit the conversation. :)

Did anyone catch 20/20 freakenomics tonight? They had some economist on there saying he did a study and found DVD players saved more kids over the age of 2 then car seats and boosters. All b/c kids will sit still (like zombies) to watch TV and 80+% of car seats are installed wrong. It really made me angry b/c it kept talking about how hard car seats are to install and how companies are expecting too much of parents to read 39 pages in the backless turbo booster manual. They did show one family going to a CPST and another CPST installing a seat and included a little bitty thing on the bottom of the screen about how to find a CPST but mostly they made it seem as if companies want the seats to be hard to use and we shouldnt use boosters we should install heavy TV's between the front seat backs (projectiles?) so our kids sit still. I'm going to write the economist and producer a letter. I really did dislike the economist for virtually everything he said but i had no idea he was going to talk about seats until they started the clip (and i had my parents in the room talking over it and saying rude things about the parents who see techs. :( i hope i missed something intelligent since what i heard wasnt.)
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
DH and I read the Freakonomics book when it came out last year, and there's a whole chapter on the economist author's irresponsibly awful stance on carseats. IIRC the carseat chapter's main argument, it says kids are far safer by simply riding in the back seat instead of the front seat, and that carseats have nothing to do with it. :mad: It's truly aggravating to hear that the author(s?) popped up on TV espousing this again, argh. :mad:
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
:mad: :mad: :mad:

I've never actually seen/heard/read this guy myself; I've only ever seen/heard/read about him ... & I think to a degree I'm in "blissfull ignorance" -- my brother did use him as reason to let my niece (booster sized, but not in one) ride in the lap belt, same with 2 of my co-workers *Aaargh!!!!!*
 

Dreaming_of_Speed

Senior Community Member
The more i think about this guy the more angry i become (and i have tons of time to think about it) I'd read the posts about this guy but hadnt heard his spiel directly from him.

Does anyone remember what station it was on? I know it was a 20/20 show but cant remember what station does 20/20. I want to write to the station themselves but of course i dont remember which one to write to.
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
20/20 is an ABC show. :mad: I'm so irked that parents are using the "Freakonomics excuse" to not keep their kids safe in the car, and now here we go again, yikes. Even parents who were pretty conscientous of CPS may be inclined to relax their standards based on Freakonomics, and those who aren't so concerned with CPS in the first place use it as another excuse.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
To me, the saddest part of this whole issue is that no researchers or organizations in the injury prevention community have proven the Freakonomics authors wrong. Their statistics apparently support the contention that there is no difference in fatalities for kids 2 and over in a carseat vs. a seatbelt. Some early responses claimed they did not consider injury measures, but even this wasn't conclusive.

At first, I thought it was just a good publicity stunt used to sell books for profit. It's a great issue and an astonishing claim able to grab media headlines and get rich.

Now, it's been eight months or more since the first headlines, yet still not a single convincing response to the author's claims. Partners for Child Passenger Safety claims they have a paper to be published soon. Sadly, it apparently could not be released to get the publicity in the 20/20 report. I don't think NHTSA has spoken a word about it, let alone any other agency that has funding based on this issue. Not only has there been no real response from the CPS community, but the Freakonomics author is about to release a new paper that cites injury measures as well as fatality measures to show there is essentially no difference in serious injuries, either.

Granted, it's not clear to me if these papers have been published or peer reviewed in a relevant journal. Still, even if they weren't, you'd think it would be even easier for the researchers to find the holes in their numbers.

If the Freakonomics authors are wrong, I hope someone can prove them wrong sooner rather than later. Hopefully before any child is seriously injured or killed because their parents bought a DVD player instead of an appropriate child restraint, on the advice of Freakonomics.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
They only count DEATHS? Not injuries :confused: Deaths are the "tip of the iceberg" ... thousands of injuries (many requiring hospitalization) occur amidst a few deaths :eek: :(
 

Kristen

New member
I have a very active 2 year old, who crys "out, mommy" as we drive down the highway :rolleyes: I am thinking of trying this "method" (in the driveway without starting the vehicle) to prove it wrong. We have a DVD in the van, and I am willing to bet that she is out of the belt with in a couple of minutes;) I will try to find the time this weekend.
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 17, 2006

JPMA Car Seat Statement
In Response to ABC’s 20/20 and Freakonomics Study

Contact: Amy Chezem, Communications Director
Phone: 856-638-0420 ext 4422
Fax: 856-439-0525


The Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association (JPMA) actively promotes the safe use and selection of car seats, booster seats and child restraint systems. Child restraints perform a significant job in preventing injuries in car accidents. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has written comprehensive regulations governing child restraint systems and car seat manufacturers work diligently to produce clear installation instructions. Furthermore, it is important to follow laws requiring infants and children to be restrained in car and booster seats.

JPMA believes that instead of alarming parents, we should work together to educate them about the importance of the proper use and installation of car seats.

“JPMA is extremely concerned about the safety of children and has been for more than 44 years,” said Robert B. Waller, JPMA President. “To this end, JPMA takes great pride in educating the juvenile products industry and consumers on the safe use and selection of car seats.”

The study re-enforces the importance of properly restraining children of all ages in automobiles to avoid or reduce the potential of death or serious injury in car crashes. The authors acknowledge that children need to be restrained. We believe the range of car seats and booster seats available to consumers make this easier for consumers to do just that. While some automotive restraint systems may be adjustable and able to provide protection to a properly strapped in older child, many children of varying size and weight achieve a better fit in the broadest range of vehicles using these add-on car seat and booster products. We all agree that unrestrained children are unsafe at any speed.
  • Additional Points Of Interest
    • The authors of Freakonomics have admitted that CRS are great for younger children and indicated that they did not intend to suggest that older children need not be adequately restrained in good fitting restraint systems.
    • The testing performed only demonstrated similarities among restraint systems in relatively low speed crash simulations and did not consider the real world situations that occur in higher speed crashes. Car seats and booster seats have demonstrated a consistent benefit in keeping children safer in motor vehicles. Many factors are involved to ensure proper restraint of children in automobiles. Generally a better fit is achieved in car seats and booster seats, which are more difficult to defeat than automotive restraints alone. In contrast, the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) has published more than 40 peer-reviewed papers since 1999. Safety researchers from NHTSA, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), and automakers regularly participate in conferences and meetings to share research findings.
    • Data from the Partners for Child Passenger Safety (PCPS), a research effort between the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and State Farm Insurance, shows that child safety seats reduce injury risk by 71 percent (as compared to seatbelts alone) in children ages one to four. For kids ages four to seven, the data shows a 59 percent reduction in injury risk by using a booster seat versus a seatbelt alone. (See accompanying video). Those 2003 statistics come from the PCPS database, the largest database on injuries from car crashes in the U.S.
    • The submarining issue is pivotal for children in the older age groups. By elevating the child in the seat using a booster, it helps position the belt properly. Using a restraint so they do not scoot their bottom forward will improve the fit of the seatbelt and reduce their potential for injury. (For more on older kids and booster seats, see "Booster Seats: Fight the Good Fight.
    • Even if automakers could make customizable restraints in rear seats in every new vehicle coming on the market right now, it would not be a solution for all the vehicles that are on the road today. It’s presumptuous to think that every American drives a new car.
  • How to Properly Use a Car Seat
    • Every state in the United States requires use of a car seat. Even for your baby’s first ride home from the hospital, you'll need one! Here are a few tips for proper use and installation of your car seat...
      • Be sure the car seat is appropriate for your child’s weight and height.
      • Always follow all the manufacturer’s instructions for both thevehicle and the car seat.
      • Always check that the car seat is securely installed. A locking clip may be necessary.
      • A car seat should be used in the back seat if it can be properly secured. The back seat is the safest place to ride.
      • Infants must ride rear-facing or in a car bed.
      • Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children (LATCH) is a system mandated by the Federal government in an effort to standardize and simplify the installation of child restraints without using the vehicle’s seat belt system. New vehicles and child safety seats manufactured on and after September 1, 2002 are equipped with the LATCH system. If the LATCH system is not available, always anchor the car seat to the car using the adult seat belt exactly as directed by the car seat manufacturer.
      • Never use a rear-facing car seat in a seating location with an airbag.
      • Read the vehicle owner’s manual for information on other belt accessories that may be required.
      • Do not use a car seat that is more than six years old or one that has ever been involved in a crash or one that is missing the manufacturer’s label with the name of the manufacturer, the model number, and the date of manufacture.
      • Do not use an infant carrier or household booster as a car seat.
      • Never buy a used car seat.
      • Set a good example and make sure the entire family buckles up!
  • Car seat inspection stations
    • There are more than 24,000 trained inspectors across the country who can
      tell you whether your car and booster seats are installed properly. To find
      the one near you, visit or call 866-SEAT-CHECK.
 

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