Why does Sunshine Kids have secret rules?

jlks29

CPS Technician
The manual says LATCH limit is 48#.... but Russ will let you go up to 60# if your car allows it.

The seat comes with a chest clip... but if you ask Russ, he'll say it's OK to replace it with a wider (Britax) one.

The standard rule is that when FF, the shoulder slot must be at or above the kid's shoulders... but not on a Radian - on a Radian you can go over until the ears meet the top of the seat even if it makes the slot 3" below the shoulders.

Are there other secret rules? What are they? Does this creep anyone else out a little bit? Why are there all these secret Radian rules... and who is this Russ guy anyway? :shrug-shoulders: :)
 
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unityco

Ambassador - CPS Technician
In Canada, it's in the manual that you can use LATCH until 65lbs. So that rule's not secret up here ;)
 

BW1426

Well-known member
SK doesn't have secret rules, Russ does.

:ROTFLMAO:

:yeahthat:

This aside, I'm a big fan of Russ.

I must say though that even the customer service at SK makes up their own policies on a case by case, day by day, call by call basis :rolleyes:
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
The standard rule is that when FF, the shoulder slot must be at or above the kid's shoulders... but not on a Radian - on a Radian you can go over until the ears meet the top of the seat even if it makes the slot 3" below the shoulders.

I thought that one was in the manual?
 

ProudMomof5

New member
I thought their shoulders could go above the top slots because the seat has a steel frame. I could be wrong, but that is what I thought for some reason.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
The manual does state a LATCH limit of 48 lbs "unless vehicle manual allows" (page 4). I'm not sure how long that line has been in there. I was actually just coming to start a thread about it. I always thought the Radian had a lower anchor limit of 48 lbs. period. I just noticed that exception in the manual tonight when your other thread piqued my curiosity. I was all set to tell you that yes, Subaru does have a LATCH limit of 60 lbs, but the Radian's is only 48. As a fellow Subaru owner, I'm kind of excited about that new bit of information. :)
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
I thought that one was in the manual?

It is (page 34). and it was clarified in the chat with the SSK Director of Engineering.

here's the pertinent section:

skipspin -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Regarding the Radian: Why does SK allow the shoulders to go over the top slots when FF, when no other manufacturer allows it?[

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The critical consideration is the angle of the shoulder belt relative to the spine. in the case of the Radian, given the occupant height limits, this angle will never become an issue. So in order to accommodate the very small percentage of occupants that fall into this limited category (shoulder slightly above the 5th harness slot yet not exceeding our height limit) we allow this belting configuration.

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Also FYI we test with the H-III 10 yr old ATD weighted to 85 lbs using the NCAP sled pulse and see no adverse spinal loading

bensmom -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: When you say shoulder belt, are you talking about the harness as it goes over the child's shoulders?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Yes

crunchierthanthou -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: is there a maximum amount over the top harness slot- more than just top of ears even with the top of the shell?

Carseatengr-> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: No maximum so long as the ears are not over the seat back height

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: What angle is important when looking at the harness and the spine? The Radian's straps are very close to the neck with the SKJP chest clip. Is this changed if a different clip is used? Is the angle important enough that even a small change could matter?

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: And does it matter for broad or narrow framed children?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The exact angle is in the range of 25 degrees or more off of horizontal (perpendicular to the seat back) - I want to stress this is an approximation - we base our allowance upon test results using an ATD that is too large for the Radian

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Re the Chest clip - it is used for the positioning of the harness straps - a wider one most likely would not affect the test results

and here's the whole transcript for anyone who is curious. It has tons of great info and is worth the read. :)
 

grumpybear

New member
The manual does state a LATCH limit of 48 lbs "unless vehicle manual allows" (page 4). I'm not sure how long that line has been in there. I was actually just coming to start a thread about it. I always thought the Radian had a lower anchor limit of 48 lbs. period. I just noticed that exception in the manual tonight when your other thread piqued my curiosity. I was all set to tell you that yes, Subaru does have a LATCH limit of 60 lbs, but the Radian's is only 48. As a fellow Subaru owner, I'm kind of excited about that new bit of information. :)

The manual that came with our seat says,
Do not use vehicle's LATCH anchorage points when installing this restraint for a child weighing more than 48lbs (22kg).

Should I be following the manual that we have or the online manual?


ETA: We have 2 Radians. The one with a mfg date of 11/06 came with the manual that has quote above. The other one (mfg date 5/07) came with the addendum of "unless vehicle manual allows".

I also noticed that the older Radian has a slightly different ratcheting system than the newer one. So is it possible that the old Radian is an entirely different one from our slightly newer one? Which rules should apply?
 
So what do you use if there is no stated limited for the car manufacturer? DH drives a Mazda and I have a Hyundai and I don't believe they have set limits, not that I can find. If I could use the Radian in the Mazda till 65 lbs, I would be so happy as I'm not 100% comfortable with the seatbelt install that I had to do last weekend since my DS hit 47.5 lbs.

TIA!!!!
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
The LATCH connectors are absolutely strong enough to hold the seat and child in well beyond 48 pounds, they just put that limit in deference to the auto manufacturers who put 48 pound limits on their LATCH. Subaru is confident in their LATCH system abilities (which are the same as every other car :rolleyes:). It's fine to use the LATCH system in a Subaru to 60 pounds (even if your older Radian manual doesn't say it).

To the other PP? If your car manual/manufacturer doesn't say anything, then you must adhere to the car seat manual. That's 48 pounds for the Radian.

:)
 

clarinetb

New member
:ROTFLMAO:

:yeahthat:

This aside, I'm a big fan of Russ.

I must say though that even the customer service at SK makes up their own policies on a case by case, day by day, call by call basis :rolleyes:

Ooh, that implies you guys in the US can get through to customer service! They don't answer their phone or emails in Canada! :)
 

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