Interpretation of Car Seat and Booster seat legislation - Help please!

Kristy00 · Jul 11, 2008

I currently have a couple of friends who are thinking of moving their barely (and in one case, not even) 40 lb 4 year olds into booster seats. I have been trying to tell them that it is not the safest option, but they don't want to spend more money on car seats when the minimum for a booster is 40 lbs.

I was looking up some more info and came across this link to the legislation - http://www.sickkids.ca/SKCPublicPolicyAdvocacy/custom/BoosterSeatLegislationChart.pdf

I am in Manitoba, so that is what I am looking at. It says children must be in a car seat until 5 and 50lbs. My question is, is a booster considered a car seat? Or does the legislation mean that the kid must be harnessed until 5 and 50 lbs?

Thanks!

lorinick · Jul 11, 2008

Kristy00 said:
I currently have a couple of friends who are thinking of moving their barely (and in one case, not even) 40 lb 4 year olds into booster seats. I have been trying to tell them that it is not the safest option, but they don't want to spend more money on car seats when the minimum for a booster is 40 lbs.

I was looking up some more info and came across this link to the legislation - http://www.sickkids.ca/SKCPublicPolicyAdvocacy/custom/BoosterSeatLegislationChart.pdf

I am in Manitoba, so that is what I am looking at. It says children must be in a car seat until 5 and 50lbs. My question is, is a booster considered a car seat? Or does the legislation mean that the kid must be harnessed until 5 and 50 lbs?

Thanks!

a booster counts where I live in NJ it's 8 years 80lb. Google Kyle David Miller and watch the video on YouTube. That might do it. It changed my mind about staying a 5pt longer.

hipmaman · Jul 11, 2008

Since 'carseat' and 'booster' are used in the document and means 2 different things, 'carseat' means a harness child seat and 'booster' means to be used with vehicle seatbelt (and no internal harness like a 5pt).

If your friends are not likely to listen to you for better safety of not using a booster seat prematurely, the Manitoba law is then the best protection those children can have for it takes them to the minimum of 50 lbs AND 5 yrs old (both have to be met before booster).

canadiangie · Jul 11, 2008

I believe it means they need to be in some sort of child restraint, appropriate for their weight, used correctly, until they are 5y/o and 50lbs.

If a person has a seat that allows for harnessed use up to 50lbs, and chooses to have their child in said harness until then, then that's good.

If a person has a child that is 40lbs and wishes to use a booster approved for use from 40lbs to 50lbs, then that is also good.

In the end, I believe it means that some sort of child restraint must be used until the child is 5y/o and 50lbs.

All boosters in Canada require the child be 40lbs, so your friend needs to wait until their child weighs that much. It's important to keep in mind that children often 'hover' under the 40lb mark for months, and sometimes even closer to a year. With that in mind, it often 'pays off' in the end to buy a harnessed seat that later converts to booster mode. The Evenflo Bolero or Generations is cost effective, has tall top slots, and makes a good booster. The Bolero for example is about $120 at wal-mart. :thumbsup: ETA #2: NEVERMIND!! Even the Bolero only harnesses to 47lbs in Canada, so I guess it wouldn't work either... ??? ... Hmmm, Up until recently we didn't have any seats that harnessed to 50lbs... so now it seems that all parents in Manitoba are forced into buying either an Apex, Radian, Marathon, Boulevard, or TruFit. ????

I hope that helps, and that I am correct in my interpretation of Manitoba law. I'm sure other's will chime in...

ETA #1: Looks like I'm wrong!! Just ignore me LOL... I tried...

????

shauburg · Jul 11, 2008

Hi!

First, the text on that document you linked to is actually a bit off - they reversed the text of the law without changing the "and" to an "or". It should actually say "Children must ride in a car seat until they are a minimum of 5 years old or 50 pounds"

The actual Manitoba law states "No person shall operate, or permit the operation of, a motor vehicle on a highway unless every passenger in the vehicle who has not yet attained the age of 5 years and who is under 50 pounds in weight is properly secured in a restraining device of a kind prescribed in the regulations and the device is properly secured to the motor vehicle"

So law says - they cannot go without a car seat if under age 5 and under 50 lbs. This is the same as saying - they can go without a car seat if they are over age 5 or over 50 lbs. So a 3 year old who is 52 lbs can go without a car seat. Make sense?

Anyway, back to your question. Law says the device for the under 5 and under 50 lb child must be secured to the vehicle, so I'm taking this to mean it must be a car seat (with harness).

http://www.carseatsafety.ca/manitoba_laws.html - this site might also help you out.

Kristy00 · Jul 11, 2008

Thank you! I did look at the site you linked to, but the most it does is explain the types of seats.

I really wish there was more carseat safety awareness here. People look at me like I have 3 heads when I talk about having to find my 38.5lb son a new harnessed seat. They all think that is plenty big enough for a booster and why am I wasting my money??

In fact that is exactly what one of my friends said to me - "I am just buying a booster. I am not wasting money on another car seat." She was not impressed with me when I countered "I happen to think the life of my child is more important than a couple hundred bucks."

canadiangie · Jul 11, 2008

So parents in Manitoba have to buy seats that harness to 50lbs (assuming many children won't hit 50lbs before age 5)??? If that's true, I bet the misuse rate in Manitoba is extremely high. When I think about the percentage of people who own 3-in-1's (only harness to 40lbs)... and that very few 5y/o's will make it in the harness of a 3-in-1, and the fact that up until very recently we only had 2 convertible seats that harness past 48lbs, and both are quite expensive... We don't want babies (1y/o's) going into something like the Apex (allows for harnesse use to 50lbs+) as it's a ff only seat... but not all families can afford (or have access to) the Radian or Marathon...

The TrueFit is brand new here, so I'm not even counting it in my thoughts at the moment... even the EFTA only harnesses to 47lbs....

Like, am I just confused here or what?

snowbird25ca · Jul 11, 2008

When was the last time Manitoba revised their laws?

I'm thinking in this case that the 5 and 50 has to include boosters. Until just over a year ago there was not even any seats that could harness to 50lbs, and I'm guessing that bit of legislation is older than that... They couldn't mandate 50lbs in a harness when we had no such seats, IYKWIM?

I believe we have a tech from MB on the board here. Hopefully she'll chime in. :thumbsup:

canadiangie · Jul 11, 2008

Glad I'm not the only one that's :scratcheshead: here.

CDNTech · Jul 11, 2008

The 5 and 50 includes booster seats.

We've had this discussion before, but I'm too lazy to go search for it.

If they are over 40lbs, then they are legal to be in a booster. If they're going to go ahead and do it anyway, there's not much you can do about it. Manitoba does seem to have a fairly high misuse rate... I'm just glad they are putting them in boosters over nothing.

If they are refusing harnesses, then I would highly encourage high back boosters.

canadiangie · Jul 11, 2008

^
^
^
^

That'd be what I thought.

It just *has* to include boosters.

hipmaman · Jul 11, 2008

Now that I think about it, the actual law must mean all types of restraint which includes booster. I remember the CRST training stating something like that.

BUT to your advantage (and this is totally misleading), just show your friends the chart you have and hopefully they just leave their kids in harness until 50 and 5, kwim?

Kristy00 · Jul 12, 2008

So 5 or 50 lbs is the max for any kind of restraint - how many 5 year olds can sit in just a seatbelt?? That is insane! Like I said, it is like most people here are completely ignorant about safety! I mean, I am not perfect (DD was turned FF before the limit, but she is about to be turned back around RF), but I do what I can and don't just disregard safety for arbitrary reasons.

I was actually thinking about this last night, and I have never ever heard of, or read about the RCMP enforcing car seat safety. I was thinking about calling our local detachment and asking them if they ever check seats to see if they fit, are not expired, ect. Our local detatchment has a section in the paper where they write all the offences they have ticketed/arrested for over the week and I have never seen anything to do with car seats. (Unless it is lumped with seat belt violations) Curious.

hipmaman · Jul 12, 2008

Kristy00 said:
So 5 or 50 lbs is the max for any kind of restraint - how many 5 year olds can sit in just a seatbelt?? That is insane!

Believe it or not but that's better than some other provinces which have no booster law but the max for any kind of child restraint is 40 lbs. Not too long ago (couple of yrs), Ontario has kids maxed out at 40 lbs, no booster law, secondary caregivers (like grandparents, relatives, etc.) need not to use any carseat, etc. Scary!

I was actually thinking about this last night, and I have never ever heard of, or read about the RCMP enforcing car seat safety. I was thinking about calling our local detachment and asking them if they ever check seats to see if they fit, are not expired, ect. Our local detatchment has a section in the paper where they write all the offences they have ticketed/arrested for over the week and I have never seen anything to do with car seats. (Unless it is lumped with seat belt violations) Curious.

Law does not always mean enforcement, unfortunately. Curious about what you would find out when you call.

shauburg · Jul 12, 2008

hipmaman said:
Believe it or not but that's better than some other provinces which have no booster law but the max for any kind of child restraint is 40 lbs.

Yes, Alberta is one of those provinces.

Kids here only have to be harnessed until 40 lb or 6 years old + no booster law = a 40 lb 2 year old can legally be in a seat belt.

I think I found the previous discussion that clarifies the Manitoba law - see post # 38. Makes sense that you only have to harness to 40 lb, since the law was created in 1984!

canadiangie · Jul 12, 2008

Yes, my 2y/o dd has a *little* friend who is 2.5y/o and just tips the scale at 40lbs. She, by law, can ride in a seatbelt now. She, however is now riding in a Frontier as of 3 days ago. :thumbsup:

Law doesn't always = safe as we all know.

Any word is Stelmach is bringing in a booster law any time soon? Hasn't it "been in the works" for a while now??? Isn't it already drafted and ready to go? (or am I dreaming that I read that here?).

cjjfish · Jul 14, 2008

I was picking my child up at daycare about 2mo back and there were 2 girls doing a "test" and observation on seats - they asked to check my seat and watch as I put my child in and were "scoring" and they asked a bunch of questions.

THEY said they were doing this research to push/promote/help put into place a booster law in Alberta. They were University students - not sure if they were representing the province transportation or just a university research group.

So I assume that somethig is in the works for Booster laws in Alberta. Regardless of that my 2 stepchildren who are 7.5/8.5 are still in highback boosters in our vehicle. They have several inches and pounds to go yet. I have the 65lb Marathon and will likely be looking at the new frontier (is that the one) when my 40lb EB isn't enough rather than booster for my youngest when the seat is grown out of.

OP - why not suggest one of these higher limit harness/boosters instead of buying just a booster? Same idea - but safer!

snowbird25ca · Jul 14, 2008

cjjfish said:
I was picking my child up at daycare about 2mo back and there were 2 girls doing a "test" and observation on seats - they asked to check my seat and watch as I put my child in and were "scoring" and they asked a bunch of questions.

THEY said they were doing this research to push/promote/help put into place a booster law in Alberta. They were University students - not sure if they were representing the province transportation or just a university research group.

So I assume that somethig is in the works for Booster laws in Alberta. Regardless of that my 2 stepchildren who are 7.5/8.5 are still in highback boosters in our vehicle. They have several inches and pounds to go yet. I have the 65lb Marathon and will likely be looking at the new frontier (is that the one) when my 40lb EB isn't enough rather than booster for my youngest when the seat is grown out of.

OP - why not suggest one of these higher limit harness/boosters instead of buying just a booster? Same idea - but safer!

Hehe, I'm very familiar with that program. The details are being lumped together (non-identifying info,) and once all of the sites are collected and enough total data is present, the overall results will be made public. Collection has been done at schools during pick ups, some daycare centers, and there will possibly be some sites. Above and beyond that I can't disclose further details of the study design etc.

Booster use is certainly one of the things they're interested in, but the purpose of the study is to see how close AB is to being on track with the CDN wide goal set of 95% of kids properly restrained in vehicles by 2010. This survey is one mid-point analysis of progress to date. So that's really the purpose of the study. :thumbsup:

eta: If it hadn't been for a sprained ankle at the time, I might have been one of those girls at the daycare. LOL. Some sites were collected by U of A grad students and some by CRST's.

I'd gone through all the training and everything, but then was immobile with a bad foot for almost a month.

snowbird25ca · Jul 14, 2008

canadiancarseatqueen said:
Any word is Stelmach is bringing in a booster law any time soon? Hasn't it "been in the works" for a while now??? Isn't it already drafted and ready to go? (or am I dreaming that I read that here?).

Last discussion I had with the instructor here there isn't any booster law in the works. There was a slip up in media made by Lyle Oberg back a number of years ago where he stated that we had a booster law. He truly believed that we had one despite AB not having a booster law, and as a result many parents went and put their kids in boosters. Probably a rare case of misinformation keeping kids safe.

Anyways, the recommendation from the Alberta Injury Prevention was made many moons ago to implement a booster law. PEI's booster legislation was actually implemented off of AB's research and recommended wording. However, it is Alberta transport who needs to pass the booster legislation and as of my last conversation with our instructor that ship has never left the harbor due to a myriad of political things. AB also has a history of almost always being the last to pass legislation of this sort. You could call it red-neck mentality and people not wanting to be told what to do.

So it's possible that new legislation is being drafted, but it won't hit the legislature until fall session at the soonest even if this is the case.
(Although I will email my instructor to see if there's any new information in this regard. Then I'll know for certain what the current state is.

)

canadiangie · Jul 14, 2008

"due to a myriad of political things. AB also has a history of almost always being the last to pass legislation of this sort. You could call it red-neck mentality and people not wanting to be told what to do".

Don't mess with Texas... Cowboy Up... Mama knows...

It's awesome. :thumbsdown:

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