Radian -- shoulders above harness slots

a_js · Jul 11, 2008

I have a friend with a Radian and her child's shoulders are right at the top harness slots. She said she isn't comfortable using it anymore (even though SK says you can) so she is going to use it RF for her new baby and put her older child in a HBB. Is this a good idea? If it were my kids, I would keep the baby in the RF bucket (she is TINY, she's so little that her shoulders are below the lowest strap setting in the infant seat) and then my older child could be harnessed as long as possible. But I am no expert.. what do you guys think? I'm thinking of getting a Radian, too, so I'm interested from a potential owner perspective as well..

Unregistered1 · Jul 11, 2008

How old is the child?

I might use the Radian a bit past the top harness slots but not much. SKJP says it's okay but I know a lot of people aren't comfortable with it and I'm not quite sure I would be either. But it would depend how big the child was if I would rather put her in a HBB.

scatterbunny · Jul 11, 2008

MissKatie said:
How old is the child?

I might use the Radian a bit past the top harness slots but not much. SKJP says it's okay but I know a lot of people aren't comfortable with it and I'm not quite sure I would be either. But it would depend how big the child was if I would rather put her in a HBB.

:yeahthat:

How old and how big is the child using the Radian?

The Radian does fit small babies remarkably well for a convertible that lasts as long as it does, but I'm not sure I'd kick the older child out of it just yet, if she's only *just* even with the top slots. It depends on her age and maturity, for me. I'd probably keep them as-is until the oldest's shoulders are actually *over* the top slots consistently, not just *even with*.

canadianmom2three · Jul 11, 2008

In my mind, I'm not comfortable with DS going over, but in reality, he is such a crappy booster rider, I keep going back to the Radian. He rides in the booster for short trips around town, cause he's got to learn (and fairly quick!!) but for long trips, he's back in the Radian, shoulders at and slightly over.....

I don't know what the 'right' decision is, if she is a great booster rider, and depending on age and weight, then maybe that is the right decision. If she is a tiny and light bad booster rider, then maybe not such a great decision...

As far as the baby, the Radian looks to fit small babies not too badly, iirc there were a few pics a while back of a pretty little one in it that looked ok.

a_js · Jul 11, 2008

The older DC is 5, I don't know height or weight.. maybe 6" taller than my DS who is 40"? That's a guess, though.. I also don't know about how they do in a booster, but that's a good point! Thanks.

thepeach80 · Jul 13, 2008

I would use it till the shoulders are obviously below the top slots, even w/ is fine and it can take a child that age a long time to grow in torso. Maybe she meant she was going to use it eventually for the baby, not right now?

carseatcoach · Jul 13, 2008

a_js said:
The older DC is 5, I don't know height or weight.. maybe 6" taller than my DS who is 40"? That's a guess, though.. I also don't know about how they do in a booster, but that's a good point! Thanks.

I'm not horrified by a child that age and size in a booster if s/he can use it properly. I'd use the Radian a bit over the top slots but probably not a full inch, personally.

LISmama810 · Jul 13, 2008

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable using the Radian with the child's shoulders above the top slot. (AT is no problem, though.)

You might want to mention the Nautilus or Frontier to her. It will give her a little more time to harness her older kid and then turns into a booster.

If she doesn't want to go that route, though, I'm comfortable with a 5-year-old in a HBB as long as he can sit properly. I would use the Radian until the shoulders are clearly above the straps, though.

Patriot201 · Jul 13, 2008

LISmama810 said:
Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable using the Radian with the child's shoulders above the top slot. (AT is no problem, though.)

:yeahthat:

I know SKJP approves it and says it tests well, but I wouldn't do it. The fear of spinal compression scares me away from using it when the child's shoulders are above the top slots.

BW1426 · Jul 13, 2008

Has anyone asked Russ for an explanation of why the Radian allows this while no other seats do?

Patriot201 · Jul 13, 2008

BW1426 said:
Has anyone asked Russ for an explanation of why the Radian allows this while no other seats do?

Yes. His answer was something like, "the outstanding engineering of the Radian allows the seat to be used even when the child's shoulders are above the top slot. The seat has been tested like this and performs beautifully." (not a quote. His words were something like that, though.)

I am not sure how good engineering and testing can change physics and physiology, though.

Patriot201 · Jul 13, 2008

From the chat transcript:

2008-03-04 13:43:54 [Message] skipspin -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Regarding the Radian: Why does SK allow the shoulders to go over the top slots when FF, when no other manufacturer allows it?[

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The critical consideration is the angle of the shoulder belt relative to the spine. in the case of the Radian, given the occupant height limits, this angle will never become an issue. So in order to accommodate the very small percentage of occupants that fall into this limited category (shoulder slightly above the 5th harness slot yet not exceeding our height limit) we allow this belting configuration.

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Also FYI we test with the H-III 10 yr old ATD weighted to 85 lbs using the NCAP sled pulse and see no adverse spinal loading

bensmom -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: When you say shoulder belt, are you talking about the harness as it goes over the child's shoulders?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: Yes

crunchierthanthou -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: is there a maximum amount over the top harness slot- more than just top of ears even with the top of the shell?

Carseatengr-> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: No maximum so long as the ears are not over the seat back height

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: What angle is important when looking at the harness and the spine? The Radian's straps are very close to the neck with the SKJP chest clip. Is this changed if a different clip is used? Is the angle important enough that even a small change could matter?

wendytthomas -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: And does it matter for broad or narrow framed children?

Carseatengr -> Special Events - CEU Chat Session: The exact angle is in the range of 25 degrees or more off of horizontal (perpendicular to the seat back) - I want to stress this is an approximation - we base our allowance upon test results using an ATD that is too large for the Radian

a_js · Jul 13, 2008

Yeah, that's the thing for me too.. re: the physics of straps at or above shoulder level, it just seems un-arguable (did I make up a word?) that it's safer that way.
I'm glad to hear little babies seem to do well in the Radian. I know this mama would be receptive if I said anything, but it doesn't sound like I need to. The 5 year old is in a HBB, and doing just fine other than trying to climb into the Radian all the time

and saying "MAMA! You put my seat in backwards!"

Radian -- shoulders above harness slots

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