Flying to Canada with EU seat - was Re: Traveling to Canada. What seat do I need?

U

Unregistered

Guest
I have a similar question, so thought I'd add to this topic rather than create a new one....

We're going to be visiting Canada for a couple of weeks later this year and will be travelling with The Little One. Now, traveling from the UK means The Little One's forward facing Britax car seat is covered in the EU certifications not the Canadian ones and we'd prefer to pre-empt any issue with acceptability etc we may come across with the airline/rental companies.

Being a Canadian airline, they've said they''ll happily accept the car seat if it is approved for use in Canada and there-in lies the problem. Does anyone know if there is any equivalency between the CMVSS National Safety Mark and the EU R44.03/4 marks?

A quick dig around the Transport Canada website didn't yield anything conclusive... We've yet to try the rental companies!
 
ADS

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I split your post from the old thread into a new thread so that it gets a fresh set of eyes. Sometimes questions posted to older threads don't get answered as quickly. :thumbsup:
 

hipmaman

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'll try to get someone from TC to give some answer if we don't get one on this forum. But does your EU carseat have statement like 'this seat is certified for use in vehicle and aircraft'? That might be all you need with the airline.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Ah, this is where things get a bit inconsistent....

That phrase isn't explicitly printed in the car seat and doesn't appear in the manual although the Britax website says it meets the CAA requirement (http://www.britax.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=68&id=16&option=com_content&task=view). Of course, one of the things we're trying to pre-empt is the 'Were not the CAA so you can't use it'.

We've never had a problem using the car seat when flying UK/USA or on internal US flights (The Little One has more stamps in his passport at 1 year old that I had after 25 years!) as all of the US airlines we've flown have had a phrase similar to the following tucked away in the T&C's for car seats not manufactured in the US: 'A label showing approval of a foreign government or a label showing that the seat was manufactured under the standards of the United Nations'.

None of the British-based airlines have ever batted an eyelid and it seems that as long as its a forward facing car seat then it's ok to use (no doubt someone'll prove me wrong!).

What we're struggling to find is something similar for Canadian airlines.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Hi there. Just thought I might be able to help. I am a Flight Attendant with a Canadaian Airline. We have had this situation many times. Unfortunately, according to the Transport Canada manual only seats bearing Canadian certification can be used on board. The reality is that a lot of the time the flight attendants don't check the seal and seats get used regardless. I heve seen from time to time someone get told they cannot use their Australian or European carseat as it is not approved in Canada. Doesn't make for a happy parent. Anyway, don't know if there is any way to get them approved - just thought I would pass along my experiences Onboard. Good luck
 

Barbara Baines

CPST Instructor
Airworthiness Group at Transport Canada doesn't really cover this very well. I have found in Canada it depends on the flight attendant most of the time. I do have a contact there (Airworthiness) so I'll give her a call in the morning and see what they say.....
 

hipmaman

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Thanks Allport for helping with your contact.

I agree that it's really is up to the flight attendant(s). My records when travelling with carseats have been hit and miss. Just the most recent trip, my dd's seat was not checked on the outgoing bound but on the way back, there was some fuss among the FA staff. I showed them the carseat with the statement that it was approved for use in a vehicle and aircraft and they were happy with that.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Folks, thanks for all the digging around!

Just to add some more info into the mix... we've also contacted Canada House (the Canadian Embassy here in the UK) and asked if they can offer any clarification. From past experience they're normally very helpful to us Johnny Foreigners when asked questions about what we can/can't bring/do when visiting Canada. Be interesting to see what they can offer on this issues.
 

hipmaman

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Folks, thanks for all the digging around!

Just to add some more info into the mix... we've also contacted Canada House (the Canadian Embassy here in the UK) and asked if they can offer any clarification. From past experience they're normally very helpful to us Johnny Foreigners when asked questions about what we can/can't bring/do when visiting Canada. Be interesting to see what they can offer on this issues.

I know some of those folks at Canada House (but might not be in the department for this matter). It would be totally interesting to see what they would tell you :)
 

Barbara Baines

CPST Instructor
Morning - got a response for the Cabin Safety people at TC. You cannot fly in a Canadian plane with an EU compliant seat. It can only be CMVSS or FMVSS compliant. Sorry about that! If you want he regs, send me a PM and I'll get it to you.
 

hipmaman

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Morning - got a response for the Cabin Safety people at TC. You cannot fly in a Canadian plane with an EU compliant seat. It can only be CMVSS or FMVSS compliant. Sorry about that! If you want he regs, send me a PM and I'll get it to you.

Allport,

Can you dig a bit further to see if this was just an oversight that TC might have not thought to include seats from other jurisdictions (yrs back) or there are really some reasonable reasons behind this? It does seem odd and possibly can be deterence for a conscientious tourist to travel on a Canadian airline then.

Thanks.
 

Barbara Baines

CPST Instructor
Hey Tam - I'll see what I can find. Unfortunately, the EU standards are very different and might not include an inversion test which is the requirment for the FMVSS and CMVSS. Let me see what I can do for you.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Hmmm, first time I've been called a conscientious tourist ;-}
Wish the people at the airlines customer services would be as conscientious - we've spoken to two different people and had two different answers. One was the (seemingly correct) answer that the seat wouldn't be acceptable, and the other was a 'just turn up with it, no-one will bother to check it' answer - not overly reassuring!

Allport - thanks for the update!
hipmaman - no response from Canada House yet, might be an enquiry a bit beyond the norm!
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
After a short while here's the definitive response from Transport Canada, via Canada House.... might be of use to others.

In regards to your inquiry, one of our specialist provided the following response.

Your request for information regarding the use of foreign certified car seats on board Canadian aircraft has been forwarded to my office for response.

The Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) govern the use of approved motor vehicle child restraint systems on board Canadian aircraft. An approved motor vehicle child restraint system is one that meets the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 213 or 213.1 as well as those meeting the United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 213. The Regulations also allow for an infant (one who has not yet reached its second birthday) to be held securely in the arms of a passenger during movement on the surface, take-off, landing and when seat belts are required to be worn.

Unfortunately, at this time, car seats from other countries and meeting other standards are not permitted on board Canadian aircraft as they have not been assessed to validate acceptability. However, one option that you may wish to consider is a new child restraint device designed specifically for use on board aircraft, which has recently been approved for acceptance in Canada. The AmSafe CARES device is specifically designed for children ages 1 to 4 and weighing between 10-20 kg (22-44 pounds) and whose height is 100 cm (40 inches) or less. It uses the existing aircraft passenger safety belt, and holds the upper torso of the child against the aircraft seatback. I believe that the device has also been accepted by the UK Civil Aviation Authority for use on board UK aircraft.

I have included links to the current aviation safety regulations pertaining to the use of child restraint systems on board Canadian aircraft and a Transport Canada Aviation Advisory Circular that outlines in detail the type of systems permitted to be carried on board Canadian aircraft, including all labelling requirements that must be met.

Canadian Aviation Regulation 605.26 - Use of Passenger Safety Belts and Restraint Systems
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/605.htm#605_26

Canadian Aviation Regulation 605.28 - Child Restraint System
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/605.htm#605_28

Commercial & Business Aviation Advisory Circular 0177 - Child Restraint Systems
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0177.htm

Passenger T.I.P.S. and Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/CabinSafety/tips/menu.htm

* * *
As far as the use of foreign certified car seats on the roads, by a visiting family, it is of provincial jurisdiction, so you will need to contact the Ministry of Transport of the province you are visiting.
The provincial contacts you require, may be obtained at the following Web site:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aboutus/prov.htm

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. I trust this information will be of assistance to you. Please do not hesitate to contact us again should you require further information or assistance.
 

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