Wish me luck! Approaching parent with horribly installed carseat

raelynn

Senior Community Member
My friends are having a big cookout today, and last night I met a couple they are friends with. They have a 13mo DS who is FFing in an EFTA, that I peeked in, and saw it installed in the center of their 2008 Jeep Liberty, using what I am assuming are the 2 outboard UAS/LATCH anchors (not sure if the Liberty has UAS in all 3 positions). AND the seatbelt (lap/shoulder in the center) routed through the rear-facing belt path! :eek:

Then I saw them put their son in it on the way home from the fireworks last night, and the shoulder straps were falling off his shoulders and the chest clip was at his belly. :thumbsdown: At least they have the seat tethered, though the FF tether is very loose (I should mention that I am in Ohio at the moment, on vacation for 2 weeks, not in Canada). I wasn't able to get close enough to ensure they don't have the seat in the RF recline position.

I talked to my friend, and asked how the mom would react to me saying something in a non-confrontational way. She said the mom should be receptive, but not to let the dad overhear because he installed it and would get VERY defensive about it.

Wish me luck, Im going to approach the mom this afternoon and hope she lets me help her install it properly.

Also if anyone can LMK if the new Jeep Liberty has 3 across LATCH I'd appreciate knowing ahead of time :)
 
ADS

Kyras_Mama

New member
I hope you have good luck with this!!! It does sound at least like they are TRYING to do the right thing.. but maybe a case of her DH installing the seat without fully reading the directions (like where it says to use latch OR the seatbelt...) Hope it goes well!
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
The Liberty allows borrowing anchors, so LATCH in the middle is ok. (Evenflo would also need to allow it. I *think* they do, but I don't remember for sure and my LATCH manual is in the car. Hopefully someone else will jump on and let you know.)
 

mish

New member
Good luck. I just want to say, be prepared with your reasoning as to why you can't use LATCH and the seatbelt for Dad. Even if he doesn't hear you talking about it, he is going to find out. His wife will tell him all the new things she learned. In my experience, when a Dad installs the seat with both LATCH and the seatbelt, they are very defensive about it. They want to know exactly why you can't use both. I know that is a reasonable question, but they all seem to keep arguing with me. It just seems safer to people.

Also remember to sandwich your comments. "Wow, that is a really great seat! It has all this EPS foam, which is really safe. Have you ever heard of the pinch test? (Describe pinch test) You keep you car seat so clean? How do you manage that?" Obviously, that is a little cheesy, but you get the idea. This is something I am working on improving right now, so I thought I would mention it.
 

raelynn

Senior Community Member
Good luck. I just want to say, be prepared with your reasoning as to why you can't use LATCH and the seatbelt for Dad. Even if he doesn't hear you talking about it, he is going to find out. His wife will tell him all the new things she learned. In my experience, when a Dad installs the seat with both LATCH and the seatbelt, they are very defensive about it. They want to know exactly why you can't use both. I know that is a reasonable question, but they all seem to keep arguing with me. It just seems safer to people.

Also remember to sandwich your comments. "Wow, that is a really great seat! It has all this EPS foam, which is really safe. Have you ever heard of the pinch test? (Describe pinch test) You keep you car seat so clean? How do you manage that?" Obviously, that is a little cheesy, but you get the idea. This is something I am working on improving right now, so I thought I would mention it.

Those are great! Ive had parents ask why they cant use both LATCH and the belt at the same time before, so I'm prepared for that one. I did talk a bit with the mom last night and told her I had the same seat but in a different colour and how much I love it etc etc.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Just seeing this now Raelynn. (J's party just finished a bit ago. ;)) Here's to hoping it goes well. I'll be watching for your update.
 

raelynn

Senior Community Member
UPDATE

I approached the mom, and she said she took her vehicles to a seat check and the techs installed it in the center with the seatbelt (which does not lock when pulled all the way out) and the seat was loose and so the mom added the seatbelt to hold the seat still.

I looked in the owners manuals (the Libertys were 2006 and 2007) and it said that all 3 rear seat positions were equipped with LATCH, however there were no LATCH anchors for the center position, and since the seats were so loose, I opted to install with locking clips and the seatbelts (there were 2 of them, turns out the mom brought her vehicle too today!).

In the moms Jeep, the seat was rear-facing, with the LATCH threaded through the FFing slots. I tried to convince her to leave him rear-facing but she was insistent on turning him because she couldn't see him.

So I installed the one in the dad's Jeep (the mom just said "hey get those boxes out, Raelynn's gonna install our seats so they dont wiggle anymore!!" - the dad wasnt impressed, but the mom basically told him to move out of the way LOL), and then I had the mom install the one in her Jeep. I showed her the angles on the seat, the two belt paths (since she had NO clue they were for different positions, I showed her where it was printed on the seat).

So I'm happy to say, that this little boy will now be riding in 2 properly installed EFTAs. I explained to the mom about "how great the EFTA is for adjusting harness tightness, to just keep turning until it doesn't turn anymore, then you know it's tight") and about the chest clip (she said "I know" but last night it was at his navel).

I feel great, I had some car seat fun whilst on vacation. :thumbsup:
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I'm glad you got the kid safer and that the mom was receptive!

Out of curiosity, why did you use locking clips? The Liberty should have belts that lock.
 

An Aurora

Senior Community Member
I'm glad you got the kid safer and that the mom was receptive!

Out of curiosity, why did you use locking clips? The Liberty should have belts that lock.

Yeah, Good job for installing them more safely, but the locking clips need to go.
 

raelynn

Senior Community Member
The 2 outboard seat belts lock when pulled all the way out. The middle belt does not, and does not stay tightened super tight without them. Pardon my ignorance, but why do they need to come off? Trudy (admin here) helped me install the EFTA in my van (2000 mazda MPV) when I was having some issues with it and we used a locking clip?
 

mish

New member
That's awesome. I'm glad it went well for you.

I don't know about the locking clips. You shouldn't have had to use them. Sometimes techs use them on a rear facing seat to prevent tipping. Instead of locking the seatbelt you can use the locking clip. Did the Jeep maybe have locking latchplates? Some of those are confusing. You can't always tell that they lock, and sometimes they don't work that well. Usually you just flip it over and it will stay tight.

Does anyone know for sure what the seatbelt situation is in the middle of a Jeep Liberty? I really don't know.
 

raelynn

Senior Community Member
So I just went back out to the mom's jeep and took the locking clip off and tried reinstalling with the seatbelt fastened normally. Got it tight. Then wiggled the seat from side to side and was able to loosen it considerably. So I unbuckled, reinstalled and twisted the seatbelt and clicked it so the latchplate was upside down. Its staying tight BUT it looks....strange. I want reassurance that this is okay??
 

An Aurora

Senior Community Member
So I just went back out to the mom's jeep and took the locking clip off and tried reinstalling with the seatbelt fastened normally. Got it tight. Then wiggled the seat from side to side and was able to loosen it considerably. So I unbuckled, reinstalled and twisted the seatbelt and clicked it so the latchplate was upside down. Its staying tight BUT it looks....strange. I want reassurance that this is okay??

That's fine :thumbsup:.

About the locking clips: you can use them if you have a RF seat with tipping issues. You would use the locking clip and leave the retractor unlocked. With a FF seat, you don't have tipping issues so there is no reason to use a locking clip. If you have locking latchplates, which it sounds like they do, you only use a locking clip as a last resort if the latchplates are broken and not holding. If the latchplates are slipping, the first thing to do would be to flip the latchplate, just like you did. :thumbsup:
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
:yeahthat:

Basically, you don't want to add anything if you don't need to, and you don't want it to be more complicated than it needs to be.

Locking clips can be complicated for parents to use (they can't get the belt tight enough, they put it on the wrong side, they put it too far from the latchplate, etc.) There's just a lot more room for error. Flipping the plate is a lot easier.
 

raelynn

Senior Community Member
Thanks :) I went and flipped the seatbelt around on the dad's jeep too. There is always something new to learn, as demonstrated here with me lol. :eek: I can guarantee I'll know for next time. :)
 
U

Unregistered1

Guest
Thanks :) I went and flipped the seatbelt around on the dad's jeep too. There is always something new to learn, as demonstrated here with me lol. :eek: I can guarantee I'll know for next time. :)

This has happened with me so many times too! I'm pretty good at installations but there's a lot about specific seats that I don't know and I've learned so much being here... I think all techs need c-s.org! It's better than CEUs!
 

canadiangie

New member
PP, you're from Canada correct?

When did you take your course?

I took mine about 12mos ago and when I asked about not using a locking clip with lightweight latchplates (like what the middle seat of a Liberty has BTW) and rather flipping the buckle over before buckling they looked at me like I had 3 heads. They said "no!" you can't ever flip a seatbelt buckle over on purpose, what if it doesn't hold that way?!". I was made to feel like an idiot in front of everyone, it was really frustrating. :(

I've experienced the lightweight'dness of the middle seatbelt in a Liberty. It holds tight, but as soon as you shake the car seat a bit it loosens. I too added a locking clip when I installed a 3-in-1 ff not too long ago.

I've just never felt comfy with flipping the buckle over since my course (even though I Know it's safe, I've been here and on bbc for years... I totally *get it*, but my mind takes me back to my course).

I just wanted to mention that... FWIW.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I've just never felt comfy with flipping the buckle over since my course (even though I Know it's safe, I've been here and on bbc for years... I totally *get it*, but my mind takes me back to my course).

My guess is their concern is that some buckles won't actually buckle if you put the latchplate in upside-down.

What in the world did they suggest for lap-only belts where the latchplate wasn't holding? (I have to flip it for certain installs in my old van.)
 

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