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  1. #1
    Carseat Crazy
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    New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Read more HERE

    Accident facts from US as well in this report.
    Last edited by *HH*; 06-24-2008 at 09:11 AM.

    DS 9YR FF in a high back booster seat(ERFing until he was 6YR), DD 4YR ERF in a Axkid Kidzofix.

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  3. #2
    Admin - CPST Instructor Kecia's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Thanks for providing a link to the entire study. It's really a superb study and I'm totally engrossed in reading it right now.

    Kecia

  4. #3
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    It really is a great study. The crash data is so sad (and kind of scary)!

  5. #4
    CPS Technician bobandjess99's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Would it be wrong to starve my 3.75 year old so she would lose a pound and could be Rf again?

    Alex, 8 Katie, 12 and Annabelle Jan 2017

  6. #5
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Yes, I believe it would! It is ridiculous that the US and other countries haven't got RF up till 55 lbs. Maybe this can help change that?

    DS 9YR FF in a high back booster seat(ERFing until he was 6YR), DD 4YR ERF in a Axkid Kidzofix.

  7. #6
    CPS Fanatic abacus2's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Looks like I need to tell my sister never to use the Cosco HBB combination seat I gave her as a booster. I'm amazed by how much damage can be done by having stuff in the trunk.
    Liz
    Mom to:
    Rachael (11/03), Emily (8/06), and Naomi (1/09)

  8. #7
    Forum Ambassador TechnoGranola's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by abacus2 View Post
    Looks like I need to tell my sister never to use the Cosco HBB combination seat I gave her as a booster. I'm amazed by how much damage can be done by having stuff in the trunk.
    And it wasn't just in hatchbacks or SUV's, the risk is there even with a regular trunk. Luggage can just bust right through. I guess the lesson is, strap EVERYTHING down in your cargo area/trunk.

  9. #8
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    It actually got on the 21 o'clock news here in Norway. They actually went as far as saying that they want to forbid FF car seats.

    DS 9YR FF in a high back booster seat(ERFing until he was 6YR), DD 4YR ERF in a Axkid Kidzofix.

  10. #9
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by *HH* View Post
    They actually went as far as saying that they want to forbid FF car seats.
    I do think that's a bit extreme. That erf is safer is an easy conclusion and I agree completely. However, I don't agree that a properly used ff 5 pt harness is categorically unsafe. Some of the severe injuries and deaths involved gross misuse and may have still been survivable ff with a proper harness. Consider the child in the OHS with the harness in the lowest (and unreinforced slots), the child in a shield booster or the one in the Dorel HBB with a poor seatbelt fit. In fact, there are very few instances in the crash data of correct ff harness usage. Not to detract from the findings of the study (because I am a proponent of erf), but all of the children are under age 4 and a properly used 5 pt harness could have changed the outcome in any of those.

  11. #10
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    I'm surprised a few of the car seats manufacturers in these studies haven't been sued out of existence, that's for sure
    And also glad for boosters expiring after 6 years... even a couple models of those (again, I'm surprised they are still on the market at all...) have been vastly improved, and if the old ones could keep on being used, kids would NOT be optimally protected.
    Sure wish top tethering were mandatory...
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  12. #11
    CPS Fanatic Mama!'s Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    The blood drops on the booster, and the Broken OHS seat just did me in.
    DD-11, adult belt/ nbb
    DS-9, Vivo
    DD-2.5 ~24#, 33", RF in RA 55

  13. #12
    Carseat Crazy serabi's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    If I was the parent of the child in the Century booster, I'd probably sue after I'd been educated on what happened.

    /so thankful she will never think a booster at 3 is acceptable
    Sarah
    Sydney 5 1/2 - Turbobooster * Levi 4 - FF Marathon * Reid 2 1/2 - RF Graco MyRide

  14. #13
    Senior Community Member TerisBoys's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by ksera05 View Post
    If I was the parent of the child in the Century booster, I'd probably sue after I'd been educated on what happened.

    /so thankful she will never think a booster at 3 is acceptable
    Nevermind that the harness on the Century booster was completely mis-routed. IMO, that child's lucky to have just fractured her collarbone.



  15. #14
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    That page with the century combo seat confused me, too...it was the kid in that misrouted century that did WELL in the crash, it was the kid in the cosco used as a booster that did poorly (and there's another seat that's mislabeled on another page, they call it a Century 3000, but it's obviously a Touriva with an overhead shield)
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  16. #15
    CPS Technician keri1292's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    And the 4mo? infant ejected from the bucket was in a 3pt. I just don't see a baby being ejected from a 5pt.
    Maiya ~ 12y/80lbs ~ Jane Indy Plus ~ Hayden ~ 9y/55lbs ~ SK Monterey ~ Quinn ~ 8y/45lbs ~ RXT ~ Mitchell ~ 18m/24lbs ~ Arctic Cat MA

  17. #16
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by keri1292 View Post
    And the 4mo? infant ejected from the bucket was in a 3pt. I just don't see a baby being ejected from a 5pt.
    right, at least not a sufficiently tight 5 pt with the harness in the correct slots and no extra padding.

  18. #17
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Have you seen this about those poor children in the UK? It makes me want to cry, how many needs to die before they do something?

    In six of the eight accidents the research team judged that the child would have survived had they been seated
    in a suitable rearward facing car seat. The agees of these children ranged from five and three-quarter months to just under
    four years old.

    In the remaining two cases the protection offered by a rearward facing seat would have been compromised
    by additional loading from luggage in the boot area and gross roof intrusion into the seating position.The children in these accidents were aged seven months and one and a half years old.

    DS 9YR FF in a high back booster seat(ERFing until he was 6YR), DD 4YR ERF in a Axkid Kidzofix.

  19. #18
    Moderator - CPS Technician BookMama's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    I DO think it's worthwhile to note that most of those U.S. crashes involved major misuse. Century combo with the harness routed incorrectly, a 1YO in a shield booster (I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the crash may have been long enough ago that sheld boosters were still generally acceptable for the 3YO), infant seats with harnesses (probably) in slots that were too high, recalled and expired seats. And of course there were probably the usual misues of seatbelts not locked, loose harnesses, etc.

    If these children had been restrained properly, according to U.S. minimums, I bet most of them would have had much better outcomes than they did.

    Edited to add: I'm not saying that the conclusions of the study are wrong - clearly RF is better - but I think it gives the U.S. a really bad rap, more than we deserve.
    Andrea, CPST, Tech proxy, special Needs trained
    DS 4/01 - Seatbelt * DD1 11/05 - Oobr, PWSGL, Performance Booster
    DD2 10/09 - GN SS/Argos
    Plus a plethora of "spare" seats for everyone.

  20. #19
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by BookMama View Post
    I DO think it's worthwhile to note that most of those U.S. crashes involved major misuse. Century combo with the harness routed incorrectly, a 1YO in a shield booster (I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the crash may have been long enough ago that sheld boosters were still generally acceptable for the 3YO), infant seats with harnesses (probably) in slots that were too high, recalled and expired seats. And of course there were probably the usual misues of seatbelts not locked, loose harnesses, etc.

    If these children had been restrained properly, according to U.S. minimums, I bet most of them would have had much better outcomes than they did.

    Edited to add: I'm not saying that the conclusions of the study are wrong - clearly RF is better - but I think it gives the U.S. a really bad rap, more than we deserve.
    I wonder how many of the RF seats (in Sweden) were used wrong? Probably at least almost (just?) as many, but the errors couldn't counteract the overall safety of just being RF in a sturdy (not the plastic yogurt cups that passed for infant seats for decades here...) seat...
    I'm just guessing, too

    Obviously the answer is to keep plugging along doing what we are doing: Encourage RF to the limits of the seats we have, and encourage proper use of the seats we have. (I guess we could write a lot more letters to people in power to give us higher weight RF seats and better FF seats, and mandatory top tethering, too )
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  21. #20
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: New European research - kids should RF up till four years

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    Obviously the answer is to keep plugging along doing what we are doing: Encourage RF to the limits of the seats we have, and encourage proper use of the seats we have. (I guess we could write a lot more letters to people in power to give us higher weight RF seats and better FF seats, and mandatory top tethering, too )
    And send them this report That might help.

    I am interested in seeing a report between 5 point harness and high back booster fastened with the cars seatbelt. Because in Sweden(and they are experts on this field) they say that one should RF for as long as possible then go over to a high back booster seat. Here it is recommended to stay harnessed as long as possible, am I right? But here in the USA one haven't got the choice to have the child RF up till 4 yrs or maybe even longer before turning the child FF, as we have here in Norway/Sweden. But here one also wants to keep the child harnessed in a 5 point seatbelt longer than 4 or?

    Because in Sweden they say that with a child FF in a 5 point harnessed seat the strain on the child's head and neck increases in a crash or even just when one steps a bit to hard on the brake. The 5 point belt holding the shoulders back and the force of the impact is moved up towards the child's head.

    With the cars 3 point seatbelt there is a better interaction between the belt and the car seat and also the child, a softer stop(that was not the word used but I do not know the words English equivalent) of the child's body, and the force of the impact spreads over the entire upper body, not just the head and neck.

    DS 9YR FF in a high back booster seat(ERFing until he was 6YR), DD 4YR ERF in a Axkid Kidzofix.

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