Police sargeant says shield booster safe and legal

UGH! I went garage saling (is that word?) yesterday, and there's always at least one or two with expired seats. At one sale, I was talking with the homeowners some b/c of shared interests, home schooling, babywearing, growing their own food, etc., and I bought my sister some clothes and a coat and a couple toys. And I saw an old Cosco Explorer, I think, shield booster. EEWWW. So, as I was paying, I mentioned, nicely, I swear, that that seat actually wasn't safe to use anymore. That not only was it expired but that the industry has stopped making shield boosters b/c of how unsafe they were.

To which she gets incredibly huffy and says (like she's said it before...hmmmm..) "My husband is a police sargeant and they're still approved for use by the Missouri Dept of Transportation. They're just fine and my kids still use them."

Yeah. Since when does the dept of trans 'approve' car seats for use? So, I said that as awesome as police sargeants are and everything they have to know, they are not experts in car seats. And she just sat there and looked disgusted with me, she didn't even want to hand my change back to me. She only wanted $2 for the seat - but I really don't have $2 to blow on something I'm going to throw away. So...I wrote down the address as I left. Would it be incredibly creepy of me to mail her the correct info?

I would definitely send some info. I would maybe address it to her husband. He might listen more since he's supposed to "uphold the law".

featherhead said:

I would definitely send some info. I would maybe address it to her husband. He might listen more since he's supposed to "uphold the law".

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OK. That was my first inclination and why I took down the address, though I don't know her husband or her name....wonder who I should address is to, lol? But I just didn't know if it was creepy. I know that sometimes (b/c I've done it) just b/c you get your defenses up when someone says something you don't like, doesn't stop the person from going back and researching it on their own later.

Do a reverse lookup with the address and you can find their names. I would send them information. If nothing else, they will get their own kids safe seats.

I would also drive by on garbage day

littleangelfire said:

To which she gets incredibly huffy and says (like she's said it before...hmmmm..) "My husband is a police sargeant and they're still approved for use by the Missouri Dept of Transportation. They're just fine and my kids still use them."

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Sounds to me like she knew they weren't safe and went looking for a rationale in order to feel comfortable selling them anyway.

I just love when people *think* they know everything when they don't.
I just love when people *think* that law enforcement officers know every LAW and everything! PS: They don't and can't because there are soooo many laws.

Instead people should listen with an open mind. *IF someone would have told me about using the T shield seat back in the day for my nephew and how dangerous it was, I would have been freaked out. We only used it for maybe a year or less. I did throw it out after my accident in 2001, but the seat was already 10y/o. I knew that much that after an accident you have to destroy it. We went out and bought a new Cosco Dale Earnhart harness combo seat.

littleangelfire said:

UGH! I went garage saling (is that word?) yesterday, and there's always at least one or two with expired seats. At one sale, I was talking with the homeowners some b/c of shared interests, home schooling, babywearing, growing their own food, etc., and I bought my sister some clothes and a coat and a couple toys. And I saw an old Cosco Explorer, I think, shield booster. EEWWW. So, as I was paying, I mentioned, nicely, I swear, that that seat actually wasn't safe to use anymore. That not only was it expired but that the industry has stopped making shield boosters b/c of how unsafe they were.

To which she gets incredibly huffy and says (like she's said it before...hmmmm..) "My husband is a police sargeant and they're still approved for use by the Missouri Dept of Transportation. They're just fine and my kids still use them."

Yeah. Since when does the dept of trans 'approve' car seats for use? So, I said that as awesome as police sargeants are and everything they have to know, they are not experts in car seats. And she just sat there and looked disgusted with me, she didn't even want to hand my change back to me. She only wanted $2 for the seat - but I really don't have $2 to blow on something I'm going to throw away. So...I wrote down the address as I left. Would it be incredibly creepy of me to mail her the correct info?

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Send her some stuff from here: http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/shieldbooster.aspx :hitselfonhead:

I just have to be the voice of devil's advocate here for a minute with the great big huge disclaimer that NO, SHIELD BOOSTER's ARE NOT SAFE! (hopefully that catches everyone's eyes who are just skimming threads. )

Now, that being said, there were still some shield boosters being made into 2004 that won't be expired yet, and at the time they were made they did meet standards and do have FMVSS or CMVSS 213 stickers on them. So while we know that they are NOT safe, they are not all illegal, and some are legitimately still in use. I just wanted to clarify this because a shield booster in and of itself is not illegal and there are still certified seats out there that aren't expired. However, it's not something I would ever recommend or that I would ever put my own kid in.

Not safe, but not necessarily illegal either. And if you're sending them information, it's important to get the facts right. :thumbsup:

(OHS seats fall into this same category, they haven't been available for purchase in Canada for around 4yrs now, and I cringe seeing them because they're all getting up there in age. But they're not all expired yet & they're certified for use based on the standards that existed at the time. It's just one example of how standards improve over time and why old seats aren't optimal even if there wasn't a risk for structural failure.)

And I guess, to continue to play devils advocate, if it had a removable sheild, and was not expired, then as far as I know, it was still safe to use as a lbb without the sheild, and with a proper shoulder belt. (hoping I am right here, cause we used ours for quite a while as a low back... WITHOUT the shield)

"technically" she was right. If it wasn't expired yet (some aren't) they are legal to use. There is no law against them

That being said, you obviously SHOULDNT use them, but that doesn't mean you CANT.

Also, if its not a proper use state it also isn't illegal to use seats past their expiration. Doesnt NHTSA still say its 10 years? (not that you should follow it)


We'd love to see them all gone, but "technically" they are still an approved restraint.

She probably meant the state DOT "approved" them because if someone were to get pulled over with them, they are still an appropriate restraint in their book.
:twocents:


ETA: Just saw I posted what snowbird did. Sorry! Need to read the replies first I guess....

featherhead said:

I would definitely send some info. I would maybe address it to her husband. He might listen more since he's supposed to "uphold the law".

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But you have to remember....they are NOT illegal to use...there is no law involved here.

Are they safe?? Absolutely not. Are they legal?? Yes

Just playing devils advocate here

CPSDarren said:

Sounds to me like she knew they weren't safe and went looking for a rationale in order to feel comfortable selling them anyway.

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ITA!! It seemed like a statement she'd repeated before, it just came out too quick.

PixieEMT said:

I just love when people *think* they know everything when they don't.
I just love when people *think* that law enforcement officers know every LAW and everything! PS: They don't and can't because there are soooo many laws.

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Definitely! She probably was disgusted with me b/c she thought I was saying her police sargeant husband doesn't know anything - but my opinion is exactly the opposite - there is TOO Much stuff for them to know, that they can't possibly know everything, and I'm sure car seats its somewhere on the bottom of that list, as far as what's current and such. He's probably up on the new booster law, b/c its gotten so much publicity, but not the little nuances here and there that a tech would have to know. Or someone who's a wannabe.

PixieEMT said:

Send her some stuff from here: http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/shieldbooster.aspx :hitselfonhead:

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Thanks for the tip! I will.

snowbird25ca said:

I just have to be the voice of devil's advocate here for a minute with the great big huge disclaimer that NO, SHIELD BOOSTER's ARE NOT SAFE! (hopefully that catches everyone's eyes who are just skimming threads. )

Now, that being said, there were still some shield boosters being made into 2004 that won't be expired yet, and at the time they were made they did meet standards and do have FMVSS or CMVSS 213 stickers on them. So while we know that they are NOT safe, they are not all illegal, and some are legitimately still in use. I just wanted to clarify this because a shield booster in and of itself is not illegal and there are still certified seats out there that aren't expired. However, it's not something I would ever recommend or that I would ever put my own kid in.

Not safe, but not necessarily illegal either. And if you're sending them information, it's important to get the facts right. :thumbsup:

(OHS seats fall into this same category, they haven't been available for purchase in Canada for around 4yrs now, and I cringe seeing them because they're all getting up there in age. But they're not all expired yet & they're certified for use based on the standards that existed at the time. It's just one example of how standards improve over time and why old seats aren't optimal even if there wasn't a risk for structural failure.)

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Idefinitely agree with this, too, there is a huge difference sometimes between what's legal and what's safe. I always point this out when someone says 'but its legal'. Well, yeah, its also legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, smoke/drink while you're pregnant, well, smoke, etc. And I'll try and name some examples of stuff that's perfectly legal - but not safe. The law isn't what's safe, its completely separate. That's why I cringe when people on Yahoo Answers constantly quote "rear facing till 1 year and 20lbs. Its the law." Well...in many states laws I read, no where did it mention anything about when you could turn a child forward facing. I mean, I'm sure its law in some, but not all. Its not 'law' in many places so much as accepted/recommended practice.

And it was definitely an expired one - circa about 1997-1998 from the looks. Looked nothing like the last 2004 Explorers. Was white plastic (er...I'm sure it was white at one time) with a rather busy looking floral print (looked like floral, was incredibly dirty) I did not look closely enough to notice if the shield was removable. Judging by the pictorial page, looks like it probably was though. But most parents aren't going to remove it, cuz of course its safer to have it there, right?

Her reaction just irked me so much! Like being a respected member of the police force means an officer knows about car seats. And that she was just so rude. I wasn't rude, why did she have to be? But then, I know the answer to my own question there, I suspect, people tend to only get defensive when they already had an inkling they were doing something wrong, so I can only hope that she'll receive info and then do digging on her own. Although, since it appeared her kids were 6 and up, they're likely not in any kind of restraint anyways.

MissKatie said:

I would also drive by on garbage day

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Sadly - the whole area here just changed the trash routes. I didn't know what it was before, and now I sure as heck don't have a clue! But maybe I'll drive by tomorrow and see if anything's at the curb.