Question about putting the RF kid outboard

I've got a friend who is a tech, on another forum. After seeing it recommended here a lot to put the RF kid outboard and the FF in the middle, I recommended it. My friend pointed out that according to Safe Kids, the younger child should be in the middle and the older kid outboard, and that she wouldn't recommend anything different until Safe Kids changes their stance on the issue.
So - I'm not trying to challenge advice or anything - I'm just curious about how this RF kid going outboard recommendation came about? I know there was also the issue a while back where someone said that the other local techs were advising parents to remove all head positioners, including the Britax Companion SIP one, which most techs would disagree with, so it seems that maybe the CPS education isn't being taught the same everywhere? I'm just wondering why the differences?

Hm, well, I just know that a moderator tech here has said that RF is safer outboard than FF & so have a few techs in another forum -- one of them is a Senior Analyst at http://www.comtrancon.com/ & another is a project manager at http://www.imminet.com/ who has helped develop Britax seats in the US & abroad as well as the new Safeguard seat.... I don't know any specifics as to the physics behind why they've advized me that an RF baby is safer outboard than an FF preschooler, but it's also a santiy saver for me having the RF kid behind the front passenger where I can reach & the FF kid in the middle away from the window (we've lost socks & toys & shoes in vehicles without window locks, LOL)

Yeah, from the convenience POV, RF outboard def works better.
I"m thinking that in a lot of cases, there may not be a HUGE difference in the safety issue. Like for me, my FF kid that this will affect (because my oldest will go to the backrow and his seat will go wherever it works best, because he can do the harness himself) will be 4.5 when I have the baby. I figure that her body FF in a crash vs an infant RF in a crash... its a toss up, I'd think.
This past year, my husband was deployed. I never used the passenger side of the van. I kept those doors locked. I opened the rear driver door and let the kids get in, and buckled the oldest, who was outboard. Then I got in and turned around to buckle the younger one in. That was nice and easy. Putting a RF baby in the middle wouldn't be so simple. Of course, safety comes first... but it would suck to have to go around to both sides, because it would be tricky to lift the infant seat over the MA, so I'd have to go around to the passenger side to put the infant seat in. Or once I'm leaving the seat in there all the time (since I"m getting the SafeSeat, and don't use them as carriers often anyway) - i'll still have to go around to buckle, or else lean across the 4 yr old in the MA. Putting the baby outboard would certainly be easier.
But the conflicting info on which is really safest is confusing!

I do seem to remember that RF outboard is probably only minimally safer than FF, but I'm thinking that if the RF seat EPS & the FF doesn't I'd feel better with the RF outboard I'm fairly certain there's a bigger difference in safey between an FF seat vs. booster outboard....

I dont think the the difference in advice comes from different things being taught i think it comes from misunderstandings (the head support issue), not staying up to date on info, and not really paying much attention during the classes.

As for the issue you brought up most recommend FFing seats in the center and RFing outboard b/c rfing seats are safer then a FFing seat so it seems second nature to put the child in the safest seat in less safe spot and the unsafest seat in the safer spot. Some techs advise that older kids bodies are more able to handle a side impact blow than a small RFing baby. It all depends on if you think a stronger body or safer seat is more able to handle the impact.

I myself am planning on putting my SIL's FFing marathon in the middle and each of my twins will go outboard along side it in infant seats and later in decathlons RFing.

Perhaps your friend should look more at the physics of the accident and less at the safekids website? Did she state why its safer to do FFing outboard and RFing inboard? From my experience safe kids gives a fairly good reasoning behind why they have particular stances. I'd like to hear why they would think this situation is better.

Well, she said that because this is what the current SK recommendation is - and what is apparently taught to techs. Just like with the head support issue - some posted here that it IS being taught in tech classes now that head supports arent safe (and that maybe there was some misunderstanding on whether that applies to the companion).
I was going to ask and forgot - does the SK site have detailed info like this on it? I'd like to see what they have in writing about it too. I looked and I don't see anything this detailed on there.

I feel like I'm not going to relate this to the issue properly, but the conversation reminds me of my SD's mom & the micro-preemie (born at less than 27 weeks gestation) -- although my SS is too big for a booster & my SD rides in a Husky with me, but in a backless Turbo with her biomom ... mom has just worried sooooo much about the baby while in NICU (& having to monitor for siezures at home, too) that she's in the middle now even though it's a shoulder belt & one of the less safely secured kids could use it -- in this it seems, mom's mind is more at rest & able to focus more on the road (& she's the type who is scared to death of snow!)

Wouldn't it just come down to the least protected child in the middle and that's a ffing child as opposed to a rfing one. I know in my car, ffing puts the seat a lot closer to the door so it would make sense from that stand point to have the rfing person outboard and farther away from the door fir side impacts. Not that it matters b/c I prefer to have each child have their own side of the car and I think most people do it that way unless you're doing a 3 across situation.

Location of the child makes no difference when hit from the front or behind, its the side impacts that it matters. In those cases a rearfacing child(especially in an infant carrier) that is more covered by the side shells of the seat is more protected than a FF child(especially in a combination seat or booster) that isnt consumed by the sidewings.

Any arrangement in the back seat is safe if the child restraints can be installed and used correctly. Simply being in back and secured properly is a huge reduction in risk. The choices of which seat to put where are often left to the parent as "tough choices" because there is no strict rule on arranging multiple carseats and because the differences are likely to be relatively minor.

The training manual for child passenger safety technicians does not give specific guidance on center vs. outboard issues, probably because the differences are not based on hard data. Even so, it is usually recommended that the most protected child be placed in the least protected position if possible, subject to the seats fitting properly. Rear facing seats offer the most protection from side impacts because they tend to pivot and keep the head within the shell more than a front facing installation. I do not know of any other Safe Kids instructions to put a RF child in the center and the FF child outboard. I would be very surprised if this is the case. I'm not saying such instructions don't exist, but as a Safe Kids coordinator I can certainly say they don't get much publicity if they do. It would also be somewhat contrary to the loose interpretation in the technician's training manual, for which Safe Kids is the certifying body.

You also won't find any statistical evidence showing one arrangement is better than another, or one seat is better in this position compared to that one. The studies simply don't exist. Most of these recommendations are based on common sense and crash testing. Again, just being restrained correctly in the back seat is by far the most important step.

I am not a tech, first of all.

However, this is the way I look at it. RF is safer than FF therefor the RF child is safer than the FF child. Just as you put the least protected child in the most protected seating position... I see this as the same thing. The RF child is more protected, therefor they go outboard while the FF child, booster seat child, or adult in seatbelt goes in the middle when possible.

In my case right now I have two kids both RF in Boulevards. Most of the time they are BOTH in the middle, on seperate rows of the van. However, when I have another child riding with us I adjust the seating arrangement accordingly...even though the third child also rides RF in a Boulevard... my youngest daughter ends up being the one who rides outboard, RF in her Boulevard because she is the one that throws a fit about riding in the car. So if someone has to ride outboard it is her.

If we were talking about 2 kids in Boulevards, and a child in a Marathon... then the child in the Marathon would go in the middle because of the lack of side impact protection. Even if the RF child is in a Marathon and there is a FF child in a Boulevard....I'd probably switch them...but the RF child outboard in the Boulevard, and the FF child in the middle in the Marathon.

This is something I've had to consider many times for other people, but in my case it hasn't been much of an issue at this point. However, if I do have a third child, the newborn will be outboard provided I feel they have more side impact protection than my girls riding in the Boulevard. It would really depend. Once they moved up to a Boulevard I would put the heaviest RF child outboard, since they all would be in Boulevards for a while.

I do know I've heard you put the most protected child in the least protected spot... and it makes perfect sense to me. I'm just not sure whether a RF Boulevard would be safer than a rear facing infant seat or not... I'm kind of stuck there.

OT: Adam and Bekah sound like Joyjoy & her buddy Asa. lol

Thanks a lot! I just wanted to get a fully rounded POV, ya know?
I think the recommendation I see a lot (not necessarily by techs, just from other parents) is that the youngest child goes in the middle. Maybe people assume that "least protected" is referring to the one who's body is least able to withstand the stress?
Anyway, thanks for explaining it all!

I think you are right, Kelly, about the assumption that a younger child is somehow always less protected than an older child simply because of age/size.

However, based on statistics like these:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) says that rear-facing seats are 71% safer than nothing and FF seats are 54% safer than nothing. This means that a forward-facing child is nearly 60% more likely to die in a crash than a rear facing child.

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx

I can't help but recommend the rear-facing child(ren) be placed outboard and forward-facing children be placed in the center, when possible.

ok can someone explain to me one thing? How do they get that a FF child is 60% more likely to die than a RF child when the stats say 54% more than NOTHING and the RF stats say 71% more than NOTHING. Id say 17% makes more sense??