field trips and carseats

Hi All,
I'm hoping you can help me tease out a way to feel better about my 2.5yo going on a field trip with another parent. This is long, so I'm going to thank you in advance if you have the patience to help me sort through this. Here's our situation:

DS is starting a parent-run co-op preschool in a month. It is a group of families from our Attachment Parenting community, so we know the families well and they are all basically our good good friends. The setup for this co-op is that DS will be at different homes on different days (it switches monthly), and one of the homes is one where the parent feels that her strong suit is taking the kids on (short and nearby) field trips. I looked in the archives for when the subject came up on the yahoo group we use to communicate, and I found that the only thing mentioned about carseats was the fieldtrip mom (I'll call her "B") said that between her car and the hired caregiver's car, there are enough carseats for everyone. The kids range in age from 2.5 to nearly 6.

Now, I know that not everyone is as concerned or well-informed about car safety as DH and I, but I was sort of surprised that there was no discussion of what kind of seat each child would need. Our DS is the only child still RF (though he's not the smallest by any means). So I am trying to figure out how I'm going to be okay with "B" taking him out on a field trip.

I spoke with her today, asking her "How do you deal with having the right carseats for everyone?" Her response was that she has enough in her car for everyone. So I told her that DS is still RF, and a conversation ensued in which she let me know that she thinks we're crazy to keep him RF. I asked what kind of seat she had for him and she said she had a Britax. I clarified, saying that I needed to know which one, since he's already outgrown the RA for RF. She responded, "Oh, so he's over 40 lbs?"

Clearly, "B" doesn't know that much about ERF, and I know for a fact that she doesn't take car safety as seriously as we do. (She tried to clean mildew off her Snugride harness using a 10% bleach solution!) I worry that she just doesn't understand how important it is to us, and frankly I don't know if I can trust her even to fasten DS' harness snugly. I certainly don't feel I can let her install DS' seat herself, and I don't trust any seat that she owns since she has already (albeit unknowingly) sabotaged her 3mo DD's seat. And, from our conversation today I know she won't take me seriously if I try to tell her that her DD's Snugrude is now unsafe.

I really want DS to be able to go on field trips because I think he'll get a lot out of them, and I am otherwise very happy with joining this co-op because all of the parents are on the same page as us as far as things like discipline, nutrition, AP and natural family living in general. So should I always install DS' seat myself, and leave the harness tightened? (I could see them loosening it because they think it's too tight to fit him, though.) Should I take him to the field trips myself until he's no longer RF -- not long before we have to turn him -- and things aren't quite so complicated? I think I will still want him in his own carseat for the trips, even then.

Anybody have some thoughts or insights on this, or have you BTDT in a similar situation? Am I being over-protective? (I'm not at all worried about him going on the trips or being with the other parents, only the travel aspect.)

TIA,
Linda

If you are able to, I tihnk I'd go along on a trip or two just to see how the seats are handled. It could be they're better at things than you fear

I'd go with until he could FF for sure. But I might have a problem even after that. It sounds like she is downplaying your concerns & as the parent, she owes it to you to ensure your child is cared for to your standards.

I dunno....I might skip the co op altogether if the other members were unwilling to take my concerns seriously.

I still transport my 7 and 5 year olds to their field trips. I also gladly offer to transport anyone else's children as well.

Yeah, maybe you could offer to "help out" with transportation, that way she has fewer kids to have to buckle/unbuckle/keep happy while others are buckling/unbuckling/get out of the car safely, etc. I'm sure another set of hands would be useful on a field trip. Maybe offer to take some other younger ones so the older ones don't have to listen to "baby" music? But geez, what's wrong w/ everyone just dropping their kids off AT the field trip so she dosn't have to transport them at all?

Honestly, this is the whole reason I refused to do a co op preschool. I am not trying to insult anyone who chooses them (one of my good friends has had both her dds in a co op & loves it). I was just worried about the differing parents & discipline styles, etc. Kinda a "too many cooks spoil the broth" thing.

I'd be mad at the person for not hearing what you were saying. Did she listen to you? Yep. But it sounds like she didn't hear you, ya know? You're so patient....I'd be super mad!

By biggest concern is if she's not understanding of him RF, etc, how can you be sure she's going to use the carseat correctly (ie harness tight enough, etc.) :twocents:

BW1426 said:

By biggest concern is if she's not understanding of him RF, etc, how can you be sure she's going to use the carseat correctly (ie harness tight enough, etc.) :twocents:

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That's EXACTLY what I was thinking too!! Obviously she isn't as diligent on the issue as the OP, which is troubling. Esp. considering the OP brought the issue up & she STILL didn't get it. gggrrrrrrr

In addition, I wouldn't feel comfortable with my child riding in a seat of someone else's that was acting in this way. How do you know the harness has been taken care of properly, the seat hasn't been crashed, etc? It's times like this when a rear adjust seat would be oh so nice. You could have it set exactly as you wanted it and there would be little chance of them messing with it.

I think if your gut tells you no there is a good reason. I would transport your own child on field trips.

To me the statistic on how many car seats are improperly used/installed speaks volumes--what is it, 8 out of 10? I see people all the time who are intelligent and caring parents that use their carseats improperly without even knowing it. But it seems more like the co-op person doesn't really care, which worries me immensely given that car accidents are the most common cause of death in this age group. So, no. You are not being overprotective. You are appropriately concerned, and I think it is wise of you to NOT assume (as the other parents seem to be doing) that someone who has kids knows how to use a carseat. I mean, if that were true, we wouldn't have the 8 out of 10 statistic, would we?

At only 2.5 I would transport my own child and I would attend any and all field trips. I am not comfortable with my kids riding with folks who have no clue how to install a car seat. I'm also not comfortable with my kids being out and about with other parents, esp on a field trip, without me. My dd had a ton of field trips this year and I attended every single one.

I'm the same way. My dd's preschool this year didn't do field trips, but the one we are going to next year will. I plan on being at each of them. I am just not comfortable with 16 toddlers & a few teachers. It's too confusing to keep your eye on one, let alone a bunch. And since no one will watch your kid like me....well, I'll be there!

My son will be going to preschool this fall and it is a small based private preschool and the woman said right away--I will not drive the children-you will have to drive them due to carseats/carseat laws. I want all children properly harnessed (she specifically said kids should be harnessed to 5 at least) and boosterd afterwards. She said I know many of you use crappy seats(her words LOL) so you will transport them.

I gladly offered to transport kids who needed to be transported as I have enough seats and will have off from the daycare that day.

All the parents thought I was nuts for having Logan RF, but the owner thought I was wonderful for that!> ;-)

So, I totally understand the concern over the field trip in general, but I'm not too worried about that. As I said, these are families we know well. (In response to posters who voiced concerns about co-ops in general, we mesh perfectly on all other aspects of childrearing because our co-op is an offshoot of our Attachment Parenting community plus we have a set of pretty detailed guidelines for most issues.) Also, I should mention that there are no more than six kids attending on any given day and with a hired caregiver in addition to the host, the adult-child ratio is always 1:3 or better.

I guess my main problem is that these are my friends whom I love and otherwise think are great parents. I have trouble standing strong in my convictions about car safety for my own son without seeming like I'm judging their choices in this area. I think this is part of the reason "B" was so dismissive of my reasons for ERF; it's hard to hear that someone feels so strongly about some aspect of parenting without feeling defensive about your own, different choices. For the record, I haven't brought this up with other members, so it's not like the entire co-op thinks we're being difficult or over-protective.

I tried to keep my original post as concise as possible, but there are other factors muddying the waters here. For one, my DS is attending only two days per week as are most of the other kids. There are some families who don't want their kids to go on field trips at all, so they are purposely assigned to days when "B" is not the host. I however, would like DS to go on the trips, and I feel okay about them other than the driving. The trips are short because the "school" day is only four hours, plus these are young kids whose attention spans are limited! The trips are also limited by distance so a distressed child can easily be reunited with a parent, i.e. they won't be crossing any bridges (we live in the SF bay area). We're all AP, so being sensitive to this is very important to us as a group.

I guess the solution is for me to go with him for the time being to check out what's going on with the carseats. I'm perfectly willing to do this, though I don't know for how long since part of the point of joining the co-op is for me to have some time to myself before our second child is born! I always have the option to say he can't go on a given trip, I just would rather that he did go.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I knew we'd have to deal with this issue sooner or later!

-Linda

Linda, it's a good point to bring up in general. My dd is 3 1/2 & I'm sure we'll be getting to the stage where other kids will want her to come over after school, or other moms will want to carpool to dance, or whatever. It makes me think how I will handle those situations (& a backless booster isn't my answer...LOL!).

Luckily, my dd's BFF from her school year has mom who wants to harness as long as possible too!

I state upfront to anyone that may be driving my child, that I will be providing and installing the car seat - no ifs, buts or maybes. I put it in or DS doesn't go. The only person that does install the seat is the babysitter who picks DS up from preschool, and she was given several lessons and is now as conscientious as I am re. car seats.

Another option, but maybe for a little later, is to teach your DS how the harness should be. My DS knows where the chest clip is supposed to be and will make a big fuss if it's too high or too low. He's also learning how tight the harness should be, so he can tell someone if it's too loose.

lizajane30 said:

So, I totally understand the concern over the field trip in general, but I'm not too worried about that. As I said, these are families we know well. (In response to posters who voiced concerns about co-ops in general, we mesh perfectly on all other aspects of childrearing because our co-op is an offshoot of our Attachment Parenting community plus we have a set of pretty detailed guidelines for most issues.) Also, I should mention that there are no more than six kids attending on any given day and with a hired caregiver in addition to the host, the adult-child ratio is always 1:3 or better.

I guess my main problem is that these are my friends whom I love and otherwise think are great parents. I have trouble standing strong in my convictions about car safety for my own son without seeming like I'm judging their choices in this area. I think this is part of the reason "B" was so dismissive of my reasons for ERF; it's hard to hear that someone feels so strongly about some aspect of parenting without feeling defensive about your own, different choices. For the record, I haven't brought this up with other members, so it's not like the entire co-op thinks we're being difficult or over-protective.

I tried to keep my original post as concise as possible, but there are other factors muddying the waters here. For one, my DS is attending only two days per week as are most of the other kids. There are some families who don't want their kids to go on field trips at all, so they are purposely assigned to days when "B" is not the host. I however, would like DS to go on the trips, and I feel okay about them other than the driving. The trips are short because the "school" day is only four hours, plus these are young kids whose attention spans are limited! The trips are also limited by distance so a distressed child can easily be reunited with a parent, i.e. they won't be crossing any bridges (we live in the SF bay area). We're all AP, so being sensitive to this is very important to us as a group.

I guess the solution is for me to go with him for the time being to check out what's going on with the carseats. I'm perfectly willing to do this, though I don't know for how long since part of the point of joining the co-op is for me to have some time to myself before our second child is born! I always have the option to say he can't go on a given trip, I just would rather that he did go.

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I knew we'd have to deal with this issue sooner or later!

-Linda

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I would see if I could diplomatically state I want to be the one to install his seat, and if she's still resistant then I would drive him myself.

On another note - WHERE can I get one of these coops? Or even an AP group?! I would adore being with some like-minded parents as I'm so tired of everyone telling my I'm spoiling my son just be being there when he needs me and not allowing him to be scared out of his wits and scream for my convenience.

lizajane30 said:

I guess my main problem is that these are my friends whom I love and otherwise think are great parents. I have trouble standing strong in my convictions about car safety for my own son without seeming like I'm judging their choices in this area. I think this is part of the reason "B" was so dismissive of my reasons for ERF; it's hard to hear that someone feels so strongly about some aspect of parenting without feeling defensive about your own, different choices. For the record, I haven't brought this up with other members, so it's not like the entire co-op thinks we're being difficult or over-protective.

-Linda

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I've been thinking about this. What about starting a thread in your group like "Check out these car safety videos" or something. Not being pushy, just putting the info out there, and see what comes of it. I know I'm not the only one in my local AP group who EFR and harnesses as long as possible, or is just obsessed w/ carseats in general, lol. The resulting conversation might help "B" see your point as well.