Question Evenflo Triumph (Old style) & RF Hight limit

Shanora

Well-known member
So, DH and I have been talking about ERF, he and I agree with it to a point, and then we come to a standstill.....I think you should ERF until the max of your seat, and he thinks that once a child's legs are resting high on the seat back its not overly safe (something about the dynamics of a force and the direction the legs would travel....), at any rate, I was telling him that Transport Canada has a heigh limit on their RF seats cause they need to have something in there, not cause there is an actual reason, to which he argued that they wouldn't just put a number in there just cause.

Anyways that lead to our seat (Evenflo Triumph - Old Style), and I was telling him that all seats in Canada, except the EFTA, have a RF heigh limit of usually 31-32 inches. Well he wanted it see this number, so he could figure out something. Well I went and got my manual....and low an behold there is NO max heigh limit in the manual......I was shocked to see this (and it blew everything out with what I was talking about, cause DH told me that I didn't know my own seat... :rolleyes: ).

At any rate the maximum Heigh limit for the EFT is "Top of head must be 1 inch from top of child restraint seat back"........

Uh.....so this isn't a new thing for the Triumphs......I thought that the EFTA was the only seat in Canada to NOT have a RF heigh limit.....
 
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CDNTech

Senior Community Member
Nope the Triumph has *always* gone by the one inch rule... whether it was the old one or the new one. ;)

I'm so used to ignoring height limits and going by the standard rule of thumb for techs, that I don't even look at height limits anymore. :)
 

Shanora

Well-known member
Hmmmm....see I always just assumed *bad I know* that there was a height limit.....and it seems that there was alot of "talk" about the new EFTA in Canada, about it NOT having the Height limit......
 
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snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Hmmmm....see I always just assumed *bad I know* that there was a height limit.....and it seems that there was alot of "talk" about the new EFTA in Canada, about it NOT having the Height limit......

The Evenflo Titan doesn't either. :) Evenflo convertibles are the only ones at present that don't have one, though I think we can look forward to other manufacturers changing to the 1" rule over the next year provided TC and manufacturers organize themselves together - or raising the numerical limit to a more reasonable amount at the very least. :thumbsup:
 

Wineaux

New member
Also, mention to your husband that there are not any verified cases of leg injury due to ERF in a correctly installed car seat. RF causes all of the crash forces to be spread out over the back of the car seat. So we are spreading crash forces over a wider area. That's the important thing here. Have him press his finger into his palm really hard. It hurts, correct? Now have him press his fist into his palm. Not so much eh? That's the difference between spreading out the crash forces. When FF, those crash forces are much more centered on the shoulders, plus you get a lot more head excursion. That is where the head moves forward on the neck and then snaps back.

Remember, Newton's Law tells us that a body in motion is going to keep going until stopped. In a crash there are THREE separate "crashes". The first is when your vehicle is stopped by whatever it hits. Next, the passengers inside keep moving until they are stopped by either their seat belts, their car seat, or the dash/windshield/seat back. Finally, the internal organs/brains of the passengers keep moving forward at the same speed as the car was going in the crash, and they crash into your skeletal system. This is where injury and death usually occurs. By reducing head excursion and spreading out the crash forces, we really reduce the chance of injury or death when RF. In fact, we reduce it by FOUR TIMES compared to FF! On top of that, I think all of us would much prefer to see a child with a broken leg than a broken neck...

Trust me. The day they perfect drive-by-wire, and my car can drive itself to wherever I program it, I'll be turning MYSELF back around RF!
 

Shanora

Well-known member
Thanks for that....I read it off to him (I tell you the arguments he has with me drive me batty....lol). But his thing is, if the child is rear facing and has their legs up the back of the seat, or knees up, in a crash they will follow the momentum of the crash, and the child could fold in half (legs keep going towards the front of the car if they are resting up the back of the seat), or the knees smash into the child's face and brakes their jaw, or if the child is resting their legs out side of the seat (dangling over the sides), the force of the crash would make their legs want to continue towards the front of the vehicle and cause the legs to do the splits in a way I guess.....

His issues are with the child's legs......which imo isn't enough to turn any child ff....

But he is understand alot more of the reasons behind ERF......but still wonders about the leg issues.....
 

Wineaux

New member
He's incorrect. If you watch the RF vs FF crash test videos, you will see that the RF seat is what handles the ride down effect. First it slides forward, and then slides backwards. It is what is absorbing the majority of the crash forces. There are many stories of kids in RF car seats actually sleeping through major crashes where airbags are deployed, and their parents get injured because of how well the RF seats absorb the crash forces.

Has he watched the RF vs FF split screen videos yet? If not, I'll try and track it down on YouTube if someone else doesn't beat me to it... ;)
 

Shanora

Well-known member
No he hasn't watched the videos...at least not that I can remember....I don't have a split screen video...I have the one with them side by side....but you don't really get to see the RF seat all that well
 

tl01

New member
I"ll find the post later.. but didn't someone post a link to an article recently that mentioned about legs being broken in a crash when FFing. I thought that was interesting given the fact that their have been no documented cases of leg injuries while RFing... but there may be while FFing. Besides... isn't a broken neck worse than a broken leg or two.
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
In a collision that is hard enough to cause the child's legs to fold in half, the child restraint is *also* going to move that much... meaning even if the child's legs are folding, the restraint is going further to the front of the car at the same speed... the legs don't really catch up to the face/jaw area, but rather they are all moving together giving the child time to slow down with the crash forces.

If the child is forward facing in that same collision... the seat still moves to the front of the vehicle *but* the head/neck is snapping forward, the collision forces are not being spread out, *and* the child's legs could be caught between the child restraint and the back of the front seat resulting in a possible broken leg.

So either way you could end up with broken legs, *BUT* FFing will end you with broken legs *and* a broken neck or worse. :(

ETA: I don't mean to scare anyone... the collision forces we are talking about here are the rarity, not the norm. Most child restraints are not going to move so far forward as to crush the child's legs between the seatback and the child restraint... but since we are talking worst case scenario (or close to it), I thought I'd try and put it into perspective of RFing VS. FFing. Rear facing is *still* going to be safer, no matter what.
 
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Shanora

Well-known member
Thanks Jen, I will show my DH this post later. I just don't have the experience or words to explain things the best to my DH, but I think this might just explain everything he needs, so that he can understand why RF is safer....and that it would take a major crash to break the legs (although in a crash like that....there are other could be other serious issues IMO....)

Thanks again!!
 

Wineaux

New member
Correct. In a crash that severe, we are going to be worried about a lot more than a broken leg to be perfectly honest. However we may not like to think of it, there are some crashes that are so severe that people just don't walk away from them. For your husbands scenario to really come into play, we'd be approaching just such a crash...
 

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