I took the 'short course' class today

leighi123 · May 17, 2008

And I already knew pretty much everything that they taught, mostly from spending too much time here.

(the instructor said more than once that I could teach the class - lol)

The instructors were good except they arent much for HWH at all and they only use part of the 5step test for going out of boosters.

There were only 3 people in the class, and the other 2 people HAD to be there, so they thought I was cool for requesting to take the class 'just because' (was a private class) - I even got a price discount because of that! The other girl in the class has 3 kids, aged 4, 5 and 6 - the younger 2 in LBB's and the oldest in a lap only belt in the middle. :thumbsdown:

When installing infant seats, they said they always use a whole noodle (cut into 5 peices, all stacked up) and a peice of shelf liner. I thought you could use less peices of noodle if it fit that way and I dont see why you need that many noodles and shelf liner for every car.

And they said no noodles at all for convertable seats - so what do you do if you cant get the angle right?

Anyway tomorow we have the checkpoint at babies R us - so that will be fun in the heat! I really want to take the full course, which is next month, but I dont know if I will have the $$$ - I hope so though!

Oh and OT - Why cant I see the 'community member chat' forum anymore - did it disappar or is it me?

Jeanum · May 17, 2008

Admin recently changed the access requirements for Community Member Coffee Break - here's Admin's announcement thread with the details: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=45000

The info. presented about the partial 5-step test, pool noodles, and shelf liner is troublesome and seems to be straying from the curriculum from when I took the certification course last year. It's called a 5-step test for a reason, KWIM? All 5 of the steps really need to be met to determine a child's readiness for using the adult-sized seatbelt alone. Up to 3 pool noodles can be used in the vehicle seat bight with an infant seat base or RF convertible to increase the RF recline angle (no more than 45 degrees, though), so long as the seat manufacturer doesn't state otherwise. Shelf liner is usually discouraged altogether rather than encouraged with every infant seat installation.

Is the short course a pre-requisite for taking the full certification class in your area? I hope you're able to take the full course and become certified.

thepeach80 · May 17, 2008

Holy crap! 5 pool noodles?! I don't use 3 all that often, what do they do w/ 5? Yeah, it's pretty much old practice to use shelf liner now, but I know the next city/state over uses it all the time.

TechnoGranola · May 17, 2008

Wow, if I ever needed 5 pool noodles to get an infant seat to the proper recline in my vehicle, I'd get a new infant seat that fit the vehicle better!

Gypsy · May 17, 2008

Well, you can use as many noodles as you need to to get proper recline - 5 is rarely needed, but I could see using 5 of the cheap dollar store noodles to get a good newborn recline.

Shelf liner isn't recommended anymore - I'd use it if I had no other choice, but I'd make sure it was a rock solid install with it and not merely acceptable.

A lot of infant seats don't allow the use of pool noodles.

Most convertibles NEED them to get a good newborn recline - or even a proper recline for a toddler.

TechnoGranola · May 17, 2008

Gypsy said:
Well, you can use as many noodles as you need to to get proper recline - 5 is rarely needed, but I could see using 5 of the cheap dollar store noodles to get a good newborn recline.
<snip>

Most convertibles NEED them to get a good newborn recline - or even a proper recline for a toddler.

Wow, hearing that makes me love the SS even more! The adjustable base is awesome and we've never needed even one noodle in any of 3 different vehicles. We could make the recline more upright as she got older, and now that we're needing a convertible, it can be installed more upright at her age, so no noodles are needed for a Marathon either. Just a personal thing for me, that I prefer not to have to add anything to my install.

Gypsy · May 17, 2008

technogranola said:
Wow, hearing that makes me love the SS even more! The adjustable base is awesome and we've never needed even one noodle in any of 3 different vehicles. We could make the recline more upright as she got older, and now that we're needing a convertible, it can be installed more upright at her age, so no noodles are needed for a Marathon either. Just a personal thing for me, that I prefer not to have to add anything to my install.

I agree.

I use as little "fixes" as possible when installing seats.

However, I did a seat check last week, mom had her baby and 2YO rear facing, both needed 3 noodles - I used thick noodles for the baby and she was about 50 degrees reclined, and used thin noodles for the toddler and he was about 60 degrees reclined - the vehicle also needed locking clips to prevent the massive tilting that the seats came in with.

Many vehicles have very deep tilted seats.

I LOVE the SS1, I do think it's the easiest infant seat to install!

crunchierthanthou · May 17, 2008

Gypsy said:
I agree.

I use as little "fixes" as possible when installing seats.

However, I did a seat check last week, mom had her baby and 2YO rear facing, both needed 3 noodles - I used thick noodles for the baby and she was about 50 degrees reclined, and used thin noodles for the toddler and he was about 60 degrees reclined - the vehicle also needed locking clips to prevent the massive tilting that the seats came in with.

Many vehicles have very deep tilted seats.

I LOVE the SS1, I do think it's the easiest infant seat to install!

do you mean 40 and 30 degrees reclined (the oppposites of 50 and 60)? rf seats should be reclined between 30 and 45 degrees. Toddlers can be more upright and small infants need the full 45 degrees, though they should never be reclined more than that. You measure from vertical.

Gypsy · May 17, 2008

crunchierthanthou said:
do you mean 40 and 30 degrees reclined (the oppposites of 50 and 60)? rf seats should be reclined between 30 and 45 degrees. Toddlers can be more upright and small infants need the full 45 degrees, though they should never be reclined more than that.

Yes, sorry. I have a hard time adjusting my thinking to vertical when I was raised from horizontal

and it all gets jumbled up when I type it in relation to carseats

The baby was more upright than a newborn, and the toddler more upright than the baby

crunchierthanthou · May 17, 2008

I thought so.

I agree that it's backward. I don't look at something and think "oh, that's a 30 degree angle from vertical." no, it's a 60 degree angle. 0 is horizontal and 90 is straight up. Whoever came up with that measuring convention clearly forgot his 10th grade geometry. or even 4th grade angles. It's even more confusing when people say that you need to measure in reference to level ground. Because then wouldn't that be from horizontal?

Gypsy · May 17, 2008

crunchierthanthou said:
I thought so. I agree that it's backward. I don't look at something and think "oh, that's a 30 degree angle from vertical." no, it's a 60 degree angle. 0 is horizontal and 90 is straight up. Whoever came up with that measuring convention clearly forgot his 10th grade geometry. or even 4th grade angles. It's even more confusing when people say that you need to measure in reference to level ground. Because then wouldn't that be from horizontal?

OMG! EXACTLY!

leighi123 · May 17, 2008

So it went well today - for the most part.
It was sooo hot out. I did most of the installs, just with someone supervising/helping out/checking and signing off on whatever I did. We had lots of people show up as well right up until we had to take things down.

Levi even got a new carseat for Grammy's car - I need to change my siggy now because no more snugride!

(We now have an evenflow something that rf to 35, ff to 50 for her car - ugly but an easy install)

I was sad b/c when they give out free carseats, if the kid is over 1, they get a combination ff only/booster seat, even if they are tiny tiny.

But I did install a brand new britax marathon rearfacing for a guy (who had his infant seat rock solid from a previous carseat check, that his daughter was getting to tall for). His baby was 11 months and 25lbs, but he said he would keep her rearfacing until he had to turn her ff - and when that time came he would bring the seat to us to switch it! :thumbsup:

The only infant seat I installed was a graco one, I put one base in each car, and they told me I HAD to use a bunch of noodles eventhough I probably could have gotten it in just fine without in the car, and with just a little noodle in the truck. - At least we got them to take the car seat protectors out, and the big plastic toy off the handle (they said the carseat guy at babies R us said they were supposed to have the seat protectors in

)

So I am taking the full class next month, I just have to get the $$$ together to do it - the short course wasnt required but 'highly reccomended' b/c they say people who havent taken it get confused in the full class.

Overall it was fun and I cant wait to do it again next month!

leighi123 · May 17, 2008

oh and how do you get reputation points? I have pently of posts and have been here long enough but no points that I can see...

An Aurora · May 17, 2008

Did they not tell you to have the parents install? Am I understanding correctly that this was a short (non-certificate) class but they are having you check car seats? (ETA: NM, I read your last post and see that it's a pre-CPST class).

Slightly OT, but your DS looks a little close to the top of his TF to me, unless of course it's the angle

snowbird25ca · May 17, 2008

Congrats on taking the class.

I hope that you get better instructors for your full class. They should not be making you put noodles under an infant base that will install at the right angle using the built in adjustment. The fewer fixes the better. And we have also been taught a maximum of 3 noodles when installing a seat - even dollar store noodles I can't imagine using 5 of even to get a newborn recline. With infant seats a noodle is really rarely needed. The older Evenflo port-a-bout seats often needed them, but I can't think of any newer infant seats that I've seen at checks that have needed a noodle regardless of the angle of the vehicle seat.

In most cases if the built in recline foot isn't quite enough, changing the direction of pressure being put on the base during installation is all it takes to get a seat reclined enough for a newborn.

Convertible seats it's quite common to need a noodle or rolled towel. But not for an infant seat installed with a base. At least not based on my experience.

An Aurora said:
Slightly OT, but your DS looks a little close to the top of his TF to me, unless of course it's the angle

The True Fit has a line drawn on the cover that marks the 1" point. The manual allows use without the headrest until the head reaches the line (or until baby is 22lbs,) so based on the picture anyways he's still fine in the seat and is probably around 1" or maybe more away from the line still. :thumbsup:

eta: The message that was linked earlier states how automatic access is given, but also describes how to apply for access when you had it previously. Follow the instructions for making the request and you'll be approved since you had access before and qualify to be grandfathered in without meeting the new requirements.

leighi123 · May 17, 2008

In the pic he looks closte to the top because of the hat! (and probly the angle of the pic...)
I need to take a better pic soon....

His head is actually just below the entire white lable, so he has around 3" before he is too tall!

They didnt have parents installing seats at all - they said if parents needed an adjustment, they could go to the next check, and they also do a lot of private checks, so parents were given that info as well. I dunno IMO it was run a little funny, but I do think it helped a lot of people out.

An Aurora · May 17, 2008

Thanks for clarifying! Honestly I'm pretty surprised that they would have you (by "you" I mean the students in the class) installing seats.

thepeach80 · May 17, 2008

An Aurora said:
Thanks for clarifying! Honestly I'm pretty surprised that they would have you (by "you" I mean the students in the class) installing seats.

That is a huge no no and is putting them and you at risk for liability issues. As a tech, Safe Kids covers me if something were to happen and someone tried to come after me, you are not covered and I'm shocked you were even allowed to touch anyone's seat! If I were you, I wouldn't do it again till you're certified.

leighi123 · May 17, 2008

Their insurance covers me, even without taking the full course - and 2 people check and sign off on each seat once Im done (a tech and senior tech) They also have to watch me the whole time. The parents sign something before we get even close to their car, which means that if we break anything in there car, or if the carseat flies out the window as they pull away, too bad for them. We also have the parents sign something that shows they approve of the install. So all the liability is on the parents regardless of what we do with the seats/car.

Connor's Mom · May 17, 2008

leighi123 said:
Their insurance covers me, even without taking the full course - and 2 people check and sign off on each seat once Im done (a tech and senior tech) They also have to watch me the whole time. The parents sign something before we get even close to their car, which means that if we break anything in there car, or if the carseat flies out the window as they pull away, too bad for them. We also have the parents sign something that shows they approve of the install. So all the liability is on the parents regardless of what we do with the seats/car.

Who in the heck would sign something like that and then let a bunch a people that sat in a half day class install their seat?

I took the 'short course' class today

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