Techs: Question about CPST course

1Sept3Dec

Senior Community Member
I'm registered for a CPST course in June (YAY!!!) but I'm a little concerned. I've read from others on this board and on babycenter that a lot of the courses are not including much (or any) info on ERF or EH. I like to think that I'm fairly well versed in both, but what if I get an instructor who isn't going to talk about these things? What should/can I do? I'm prepared to bring my arsenal of info on the topics if I need to, but I don't want to start an argument either...

Why, oh why, do I have to care so much about car seats??? :p

TIA!
 
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Unregistered1

Guest
I sort of had this issue... We did discuss ERF, they definitely took care to inform us on that, but EH was glossed over. I'm not sure why, maybe the instructors were trying not to throw too much at us at once (I was the only crazy car seat nerd in the class, the rest were required to take it) but in any case, I didn't feel like I could 'correct' them even though I wanted to. If there was something that really bugged me I phrased it as a question, "I heard that it is better for kids to stay in a harness longer, is that true?" and they would usually give me the answer I was looking for.

Also when you do your installs and they give you child stats, it gives you a chance to show that you want to keep them RF and harnessed as long as possible. My instructor commended me for RFing an "almost two year old".

Best of luck, yay CPST course!
 

fyrfightermomma

New member
I took the course this past March. They did mention ERFing but did not push it. They told us several times "we really want them to be rearfacing as long as possible" but when it came down to testing and checks it was a different story. On a test, I was supposed to choose a seat for a 28 month old who was 23 pounds. I chose RFing. They informed I was wrong and it needed to be a FFing seat. At checks they definately dind't push ERFing at all but my little group did :) They told us that after around 18ish months they are OK telling parents to FF.

They did not go over EHing AT ALL! The only time it was mentioned was for special needs seats. When someone asked why the weight limits on the EFTA and Britax's were higher they stated something along the lines of it's for shorter fatter kids under age 4.


When someone mentioned their friend bought a Regent for their kid and it goes to 80 lbs the instructors all said at the same time "Oh that poor kid!!!"

So, they are slowly getting there. Hopefully in the next few years more will get on board with best practices better. Someone also said it seems the instructors with children still in seats are better at best practices than those without children. None of my instructors had children still in seats so maybe that will help

Enjoy your class anyways though :)
 

1Sept3Dec

Senior Community Member
So, I guess my question now is, do I challenge them? I have plenty of information on both ERF and EH that I can bring with me. I'm not over the top about this, but I do feel strongly that the people in the class with me are given the most accurate and up to date information. I don't want people perpetuating the myth that kids should FF at 1 and be in a booster at 40lbs (even if that's at age 3... ugh), kwim?

Any suggestions for how to do this nicely and not step on any toes? I don't want to be the trouble maker in class, lol!
 

Stretchy Glue

New member
I wouldn't challenge them, but it doesn't hurt to refer to the AAP recommendations. You are taught that you are to instruct parents in best practices, but I don't know how much I would argue with instructors over it. You know your stuff, and maybe the best time to bring it up is during lunch conversations, when they're not teaching but when the conversation has more freedom.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
ERF was definitely stressed in my class. EH...not so much. They didn't discourage it, but it wasn't really mentioned. That said, my instructors were definitely on top of things, so there was no need to "challenge" them.

I like the PP's MO of phrasing things as a question. ("I heard that..." "What if the seat goes to 80 lbs....?") That way you're throwing it out there without seeming confrontational. It's also a good way to get a read on their position.
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
I agree as an instructor that is a way to burn some bridges that you might need later on. The whole course is about "best practice" and that does include ERF & EH but we have to stick to the course set by Safe Kids Worldwide. We always refer our decisions as to ERF or EH back on the parents. We tell them the benefits but in the end result it's the parents decision.

As for the 3 quizes while the above ? might have been what we would have done out in the field or with our own children but we have to grade per the grade sheet given to us by SKW. Now when you get to the skills testing we can be a little more forgiving and I wouldn't have counted the above posters answer as wrong as long as the seat she had allowed it.

Also don't go in as a know it all either. Let others answer questions even though you might know the answer before anyone else. This will not only frustrate the instructors but also other class mates too. Some of the times it's better to sit back and watch/learn and show all your knowledge outside & on the tests.
 

pastrygirl

New member
I just finished the course on Friday. :D

They stressed ERF and mentioned that 4/40 is a bare minimum, but they didn't talk much about EH. One thing they talked about a lot is the upcoming booster law that will take effect in my state in July, so they were talking about how it will be our job to help get kids back into boosters. They mentioned the Regent but almost like it was a joke or overkill.

I asked privately about whether we "should" ever recommend extended harnessing instead of a booster, and the instructor said I can but that it probably won't be taken seriously. However, they did stress that 4/40 is a bare minimum and that many seats now harness to higher weights.

I did speak up a lot during the class, and tried to phrase everything as a question instead of a challenge. I talked to one of the instructors privately to let him know that I wasn't trying to be a pain, but that I was trying to merge what I've learned outside the class with what I learned there. :eek:
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Mine was under the old curriculum, but my instructor said that it was ok to leave them RFing past 12 months, but to turn them when they started talking. A four year old was definitely expected to be in a booster.

I brought pictures of Piper the day after I had mentioned ERFing (because they didn't) and showed it to the people there who had the "but their legs" issue. When we were doing some work with dummies I grabbed the six year old dummy and stuffed it into a Marathon (with 1/4" shoulder room left) and said that that's what I'd do, with a booster as a back up. Mostly I just did what I could vocally when we were doing practical things like that, but I tried not to argue with the instructors. It hurt their feelings. LOL Probably because they knew on carseat basics I knew far more than they did. They had me on TREAD and matrices and stuff like that, but when it came to the whats and whens of carseats I had them on level ground, easy. When we discussed where people should be placed in cars I gave my opinion that the two year old 25 pounder should be rear facing outboard and the four year old 41 pounder forward facing on the other side in a carseat and then 12 year old IF they passed the five step test could be in the middle without a booster.

I had a lot of people looking at me like I had two heads. Especially when they saw my carseat installed rear facing for my nearly four year old. My instructors said that she should be forward facing and that I couldn't twist the stalk three times AND use the lockoffs (lapbelt only with locking latchplate) because that was two fixes. So they had me reinstall it passenger side outboard. I put it back where it was once I showed them that I knew how to install it.

I haven't seen that instructor since, though I think I've heard of someone else here who had her and hated her. But the other one I have worked with since and taken a refresher class with and she's less likely to voice her opinions, but she is far more open about ERFing and EHing than the other one (who I dubbed EI during my course for "Evil Instructor"). The two guy instructors were ok. One was a boring idiot, one just seemed like he wanted to be a friend to the whole class.

Wendy
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
I think the trouble is with what you end up seeing in real-life. When you get a 3yo who's in a booster because he's over 40lbs and outgrew "the last seat he'd ever need," and the parents are clearly low-income, you can't just say "run out and buy a HWH seat!" For one thing, in a lot of areas they're just not available locally, even the Apexes and GNs can be difficult to impossible to find, even if they could come up with the money spur-of-the-moment.

At the same time, I do think it's important that we teach parents about ERF and EH when we have the opportunity and their children are younger; if we're installing an infant seat, we talk to them about how the next carseat for this child should be a convertible that RF & explain why; if we're installing a convertible, we talk about options for EH. I've noticed that with our local moms group, none of the moms tend to run out and replace their "problem" seats when we discuss things like EH or ERF, but all of them are making more informed choices when it's "time" to buy a new seat. For example, one mom didn't ERF her son for various reasons, even though she'd been informed of the issues, but when he started outgrowing his convertible, she asked for suggestions, shopped around, and got him an Apex. :thumbsup:
 

1Sept3Dec

Senior Community Member
Thank you all for your replies!

I definately do not want to burn any bridges! I'm really excited to be taking this course, but it does concern me that the instructors might not be as up to date on ERF and EH as they could be. I know I will certainly be in the minority (I'm a total car seat freak, lol) but I feel strongly that techs should be well informed of best practices, not just in how to deal with what we will see in everyday life. Only by educating the general public will we eventually be able to change how EVERYONE uses CR's.

So, if I'm giving out information about ERF and EH to parents, I don't want them to come back to me and tell me that another tech told them something else, kwim? We just need to be on the same page!

Also, I totally understand that the vast majority of people I will be helping will NOT be ERF and EH. Heck, I'm pretty much the only person anywhere that is following these practices! I already get the, "boy, she's got no clue" look from people when I pull my 17mo out of her RF seat. :rolleyes: But, I will still be giving those parents information!

I think the suggestion to approach the instructors during lunch is GREAT. It doesn't challenge them in front of the class and it gives me the opportunity to *challenge* their current thinking. Who knows, maybe I'll get a really kick butt tech who is up on ERF and EH!

Anyhow, I :love: all you guys! Thanks for the advice and I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
So, if I'm giving out information about ERF and EH to parents, I don't want them to come back to me and tell me that another tech told them something else, kwim? We just need to be on the same page!

Good luck with that. It won't happen, I'm afraid. Even if it does in your class when you get out there working checks with techs who have been doing it for ten years you'll get the "they're close enough to 20 pounds" "their feet are touching" "oh no, they're definitely old enough at three for a booster." I had one tech contradict me in front of a parent when I did the least protected child in the most protected spot. I convinced a mom to turn back her 30 pounds 2 year old to RFing and the senior checker said that while it is technically much safer, she can turn her child back around if she wanted to, he was definitely old and heavy enough. Why would you say that to someone who just agreed (happily) to turn her son back around???? This is the same senior checker who was going to sign off on a new tech's "helpful" installation of a seat with center LATCH in an Acura. She swore up and down that it was ok until she REALLY REALLY looked at the manual, then came back and lo and behold, I was right.

Expect to know more than everyone else out there. Expect to help a lot of people. And expect to be frustrated.

Wendy
 

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